MTV,
I thought the layman's definition of Va was you could do anything you wanted to with any control or possible combination of controls and you wouldn't hurt anything. Just like them bastids to change a definition. Wonder what airspeed means now?
When I first joined the ARMY, I was an OH-58 mechanic. I walked by this 58 in the hanger a dozen times wondering what was wrong, it just didn't look right. I didn't figure it out until we pushed it out from the hanger and un tied the main rotor blades and rotated them, the tailrotor was on backwards . The mechanic hadn't caught it. The technical inspector hadn't caught it. The test pilot didn't catch it on pre-flight. He would have caught it on run up though
A month or two later I was on the flight line with another mechanic and a Lt. from another unit was running up one of their birds. We were watching him because we didn't know it was allowed to do what he was obviously going to do. I was a private, he was an officer and all privates know not to question an officer. Anyway he started the little 58 and was dilligently going through the checklist on his knee. You could tell because he would look at an item on the checklist, touch the switch or gauge and go back to the checklist. When he got to the part when you switch the starter generator switch from starter to generator on the overhead panel, you could see the look of horror come over his face as he noticed the main rotor blades weren't turning, He had left them tied to the tail boom.

A64, surely you must be mistaken, an officer would never do anything like that... lol.

When I was in flight school I was really nervous about my P1 checkride, the very first checkride we take. I actually forgot to put my survival vest on and flew the whole checkride with out it. Luckily the instructer did not catch it. I only realized it when I got out of the cockpit and tried to remove the vest.

It seems like I only ever hear about the senior guys making mistakes like that though. Getting in a hurry and leaving pitot covers on, a CW5/CW4 combo flew away with out their crew chief. The crewcheif had been helping VIPs unload out of the aircraft and as soon as he closed the cabin door they pulled pitch. He barely got his helmet unpluged from the ICS cord before it ran out of length.

Everyone makes mistakes and I can understand that, but at what point does it become too many and dangerous?

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:Stir the pot at the begining of run up, "thumbs high you're gonna fly, thumbs down your gonna drown".

When I "Stir the Pot" I go through "Knees, Knuckles, Nuts - controls free and correct" All the while verifying "Thumbs up - ailerons up", all control movements go to the stop.

Once during a preflight on a rental 172, that just landed I found a ball peen hammer in on top the cylinders. Let me tell you it was hot, why I reached in to get it out I'm not sure , but it didn't take me long to drop it on the ground.

Another time in the 180, same process and was having trouble with rudder peddles Get out check it out and the defroster hose was tangled up - after repairs.

Lately after radio work "Knees, Knuckles, Nuts" WTF Radio strap broke and wouldn't allow aft movement of the elevator, as in the 60 model 182 the yoke set up has only about and inch clearance under the radio stack. That could have been a bad day. Also had the radio tech in with me for a test flight when that happened, opened his eyes a bit.

So in summary I ALWAYS check, double check anything that comes out of the shop. Because AP/IAs are only human, and prone to making mistakes like anyone else. I try to avoid the kick the tires light the fire syndrome, to much at stake to not take your time and be througho.

See ya, Bub

I don't know Mike, I flew a whole night gunnery iteration feeling awful comfortable. When we got back to the FARP the pad chief knocked on my door. I opened it to see what he wanted and he handed me my vest. I always hung it on the right wing pitot tube before preflight. It flew there the whole time, didn't get a mark on it even when we shot rockets. Wouldn't I have been the unit favorite if that M-9 had fallen out of the holster?

a64,

That was my point reference the airbus accident. That pilot had been trained to use rudder, full rudder if necessary to help stop roll excursions in a wake encounter. He, like nearly every other pilot on the planet that I knew, was always led to believe that Va would permit the pilot to deflect ANY or ALL control surfaces fully and abruptly without damaging the aircraft. That, it turns out, is WRONG. In fact, the ONLY control surface that is required to meet that standard at Va is the elevator. Not so the rudder or ailerons.

MTV

While we're on the topic of prefights, here's a few thing's I've discovered and things I've missed in my short flying career. Small reminders I'm not infallible either.

1. Taxi to the fuel pumps before take-off, after preflight, and notice a rag in the front of the cowling. I'd made several flights since the last time it'd had maintenance, and the rag was a different type from the one I'd just used to check the oil. How the heck?

2. Looked in pitot and discovered a small spider in there, despite the flip up cover. Chased him out with a few thumps on the side of the pitot.

3. Discovered a pitot/static that was bend over about 30 degrees to one side.

4. Used to leave the engine cover on in the winter until I was finished with the rest of my preflight. Till the time I realized when I got to "check prop clear" on the start checklist that it was still on and I'd never checked the oil.

5. Took off from an uncontrolled strip and flew for an hour before realizing my NAV/Comm master was off. Didn't figure it out till I couldn't get ATIS when approching Fairbanks.

6. Not really an ommision, but I once had the engine die when I checked carb heat during run-up. While I was sitting there trying to figure out what just happened, ground came over the radio telling me I had fuel pouring out of the cowling! I shut the fuel off and dove out of the plane only to discover a huge puddle of WATER under the plane. Several days of heavy rain had filled a low spot in my Carb heat hose with water! (A little reseach showed that a drain hole in the scat hose was appoved, but not required.

7. Got cleared and was taxiing out when I noticed the trunk of my car was wide open after stashing the covers in it. Duh-Oh!

And my number one preflight pet peeve:
- Pilots who don't check oil or dip fuel tanks before the second flight of the day. How do they know there wasn't a leak during the first flight? Sight guages are the only type I'd trust.

Phil

On your #6, you got real lucky. Often as not ingestion of enough water to kill an engine will hydro lock it and can cause extensive damage.

a64pilot wrote:On your #6, you got real lucky. Often as not ingestion of enough water to kill an engine will hydro lock it and can cause extensive damage.

Don't I know it, and the engine only had about 50 hours on it at the time. I'm guessing it wasn't pulling enough vacuum at that power to fully suck it all the way up into the cylinders.

Phil

A64

I thought the layman's definition of Va was you could do anything you wanted to with any control or possible combination of controls and you wouldn't hurt anything. Just like them bastids to change a definition.

Despite what pilots have been led to believe, back in the paper airplane stage, Va has always been a single axis parameter. It is defined strictly by the lift curve and the load limt line. Lift is modulated by AOA which is controlled by pitch/elevator input. When you start looking at combinations of control inputs, things can get out of hand quickly. Our flight tests (a couple of lifetimes ago) usually found peak structual loadings occurred during rolling pullouts and control doublets (control reversals) IIRC, combined axis inputs usually implied no more than about 2/3 of the max load on any single axis during the manuever. Doublets were usually a 2 to 3 second reversal, not a rapid pumping of the control. Remember this the next time the UAL pilots eat the chicken and faint and the pretty young stewardess asks you to fly the 787 back to America.

Yellowbelly,

Uh---pretty young "FLIGHT ATTENDANTS". Showing your age.

MTV

mtv wrote:Yellowbelly,

Uh---pretty young "FLIGHT ATTENDANTS". Showing your age.

MTV

Yeah, but "pretty young flight attendants" could mean either of two scenarios, and for me the fantasy is much better with only one of the two - though truthfully, it is the flying part that truly does it for me