Lesuther's long discussion constitutes one of the most arrogant posts I've ever seen on the internet. Do you even know any of those guys, to make that sort of characterization of them on line?

Nuff said on that.

As to regulating the numbers of airplanes visiting remote airstrips, some of you need to have been involved in natural resource law enforcement in truly wild country before you start suggesting totally unenforceable "solutions".

But, what the hey, this thread has devolved into mostly BS anyway.....

MTV

Permits won't be cheap. Regulation requires paying gatekeepers and the overhead. This is why campsites on public lands are so pricey. It is amazing how quickly costs rise when you are forced to have people make sure other people don't throw a week of dirty diapers and aluminum cans in the bushes by a campsite. it will be expensive to get gatekeepers to monitor traffic at strips for limited access.

On the other hand, these things don't have to happen when resource impacts are minimal in the first place. Noise is an impact that other users object to and may move to limit.

The small subset of annoying users has the ability to ruin it for everyone, just like the small subset of diaper and can dumpers in campsites. Without them, things would be a lot simpler.

A few things I took away from the video:

1. The most important thing in the first aid kit: coagulant.

2. Stock super cubs have crappy seatbelts. Make sure you get that fixed if your airplane still has seatbelts that attach to the seat.

3. Keep your spot/inreach on you. (Though I wonder if that will affect it's ability to send bread crumbs. Perhaps carry an inreach and a classic PLB, but then again, the PLB can't relay the nature of the emergency.)

4. Having some basic EMT training made understanding what the actual life threatening issues were: suffocating.

Things I learned from skimming this thread:

1. Alaska has way more open space to play without politics, I'm going to miss this place.

2. Turning around at 6000ft takes more space than 2000ft. (I've only ever flown in AK at sealevel, so I'm going to have to learn to fly again when I get to the lower-48)

3. People really hate strip-bagging. Which is weird to me since I live next to the Knik, so strip bagging is pretty much all people do over there.... but... that area is marked off for 4-wheelers, side by sides, jeeps, etc.... so we aren't the only people using our off-road vehicles.

Hopefully time will allow a more thorough read, but I doubt it. I have a septic system I have to repair, and it needs to be done by this weekend.

I assume This thread was posted For educational purposes for the pilot community at large. It has morphed a variety of different ways. to the video itself being an example of what’s wrong with posting without people’s permission, To it demonstrating piss poor piloting, To piss poor usage etiquette, To being a bad example for the sport, To the ecological concerns.
Hoowee....Just glad I live where folk Have always knowed how to care for the land without a bureaucrat (yes we have DNR) interceding on a very few people’s behalf that may not want to hear a human made noise or see a plane overhead when they are themselves using it.
The few times that someone on the river where I play has complained to the sheriff of the county I may be in, Or to DNR, They are instructed that I have a right to the natural resources that my state has just as everyone else does.
In an earlier post I said this is in the realm of politics and the battle is already lost. Generally speaking issues like this are seen so much differently by people in different parts of the country, to the extent they even have a different world view on a variety of different subjects. And the folks in different parts of the country tend to elect people with the same worldview and mindset. You get the government that you deserve.

Dang, anybody else from BC reading this and being thankful for where we live?

Limits to how many planes can land in a day? Mandatory stays? Lotteries? Forbidden wheelbarrows? Jesus take the wheel.

Super informative thread. I need to get up to ID and bag as many strips as I can before they outlaw "foreigners" from crossing that ID border - do I need to bring my passport?

What a bunch nonsense

corefile wrote:Super informative thread. I need to get up to ID and bag as many strips as I can before they outlaw "foreigners" from crossing that ID border - do I need to bring my passport?

What a bunch nonsense

I need to head to CA and bag as many of the noise sensitive airports as possible. I'm pretty sure it will take multiple stop and goes before I get each one right. My airplane will rattle every window in a mile radius if I choose to turn it up.

I totally agree about the nonsense, it comes from both sides. Middle of the road with respect for both sides is where I'd like to be.

corefile wrote:Super informative thread. I need to get up to ID and bag as many strips as I can before they outlaw "foreigners" from crossing that ID border - do I need to bring my passport?

What a bunch nonsense

Is this really that much different than someone going to say Flyrite's neighborhood and complaining about the excessive airplane noise, or worse, moving there and trying to ban airplanes altogether?
Essentially a complete disregard for local customs and ethics.
I think what the locals are saying is they understand the tenuousness of our ability to visit these places, and if this access is lost, the locals' flying is impacted to a much greater degree than those who would visit maybe a handful of times in their lifetime.

lesuther wrote:Permits won't be cheap. Regulation requires paying gatekeepers and the overhead. This is why campsites on public lands are so pricey. It is amazing how quickly costs rise when you are forced to have people make sure other people don't throw a week of dirty diapers and aluminum cans in the bushes by a campsite. it will be expensive to get gatekeepers to monitor traffic at strips for limited access.

Yeah, like Yellowstone charges $14 a day for a campsite.......totally outrageous.

But, frankly the only way any of the “potential solutions” you’ve been suggesting will come to pass is if pilots don’t stand up and fight ridiculous restrictions.

Example: The Forest Service managed to convince the FAA to place PROHIBITED airspace over the entire Boundary Waters Canoe Area. That actually put a bunch of aviation types out of business. Nowadays, the only ones permitted to fly below 2000 agl there is FS Aircraft.

So, who let THAT happen? Pilots did.

And, if we allow restrictions to be placed on flying in the Frank, shame on us. Let’s not be making suggestions on how restrictions should be structured. Let’s make sure we participate actively in any process that suggests restrictions there.

Bear in mind the verbiage in the Act: any restrictions on the use of those airstrips must be “reasonable”. That means reasonable to the users of those strips.

Again, I’m not in favor of “strip bagging”, and I really dislike those huge fly ins at JC. So I stay away from both.

MTV

whee wrote:

corefile wrote:Super informative thread. I need to get up to ID and bag as many strips as I can before they outlaw "foreigners" from crossing that ID border - do I need to bring my passport?

What a bunch nonsense

I need to head to CA and bag as many of the noise sensitive airports as possible. I'm pretty sure it will take multiple stop and goes before I get each one right. My airplane will rattle every window in a mile radius if I choose to turn it up.

I totally agree about the nonsense, it comes from both sides. Middle of the road with respect for both sides is where I'd like to be.

Only if I can stand out on my front yard and shake my fist as you fly by and pollute the air with your garage built plane noise and poison me with your leaded gasoline.

I get the message you guys are laying down - but what some of us are pushing back on is the tone and divisive nature of a couple of the post.

Story 1)

As a foreigner (not from ID) I took my plane and went to enjoy the wilderness of ID. Bagged a strip called Thomas Creek with 3 other planes. We then walked up stream to a wonderful hot springs...so quiet and peaceful...until RAFT after RAFT came by, making noise and ruining our wonderful hot spring wilderness adventure.

Story 2)

Every year someone from out west tries to fly all the way to the EAA Airventure in Oshkosh, only to run out of fuel someplace within 50 miles of KOSH. Every year there is discussion about some change to NOTAM or regulations or such.


I guess it all comes down to perspective...and the theory of relativity.

whee wrote:I totally agree about the nonsense, it comes from both sides. Middle of the road with respect for both sides is where I'd like to be.

Thank you, Whee. That's my wish, too. Unfortunately, AKSCHU's septic tank is smelling pretty good compared to this thread. I did not wish to contribute to that, but to the extent I did, I apologize. There's a discussion of the video over on Supercub that's managed to stay on topic. The contrast is notable, and lamentable.

CAVU

mtv wrote:Lesuther's long discussion constitutes one of the most arrogant posts I've ever seen on the internet. Do you even know any of those guys, to make that sort of characterization of them on line?

I've met you a few times, as well as others that are on here. I think the shoe fits for some. I've also met some who have felt more or less the same way as I do. So I don't think there is much to be shared here, your feelings notwithstanding.

[quote="mtv"But, frankly the only way any of the “potential solutions” you’ve been suggesting will come to pass is if pilots don’t stand up and fight ridiculous restrictions.[/quote]I'm genuinely curious what "solutions" you seem to think I'm advocating. I clearly said I didn't want any, and that the problems would likely take care of themselves in time due to purely demographic forces. The same arguments have been echoed elsewhere in the thread.

"Solutions" are what happen when people act dumb and create the kinds of conflicts that inspire other users to demand, and receive, change. Most of those "solutions", as I mentioned, would lock out the backcountry trips for many aviation users on the basis of a pretty small minority of problems, just as they do in many other public lands conflicts on public lands.

It's not something I would either look forward to, they would create administrative headaches well beyond the benefits, and they would suck- full stop.

As for "costs" being "only" $14 for a campsite in Yellowstone, try $20 or more on average in my surrounding USFS regions. It'll be a lot more than that to pay for the gatekeepers with only a few aviation collections- a lot more. The numbers don't work out otherwise, and districts have minuscule budgets. It'll turn into management like Moose Creek was when they tried having "rules" and "solutions" and a zealous ranger there...it was pretty dumb, and didn't "solve" any imaginary "problems" at all. And it was still free. Imagine paying for that kind of "service".

But I think I'll be watching it happen sooner or later if it gets bad enough, which I sincerely hope it doesn't. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen with or without my opinion, letters of support, public input, or other involvement. It is, as it always has been, in the hands of a small group of problems.

lesuther wrote:

mtv wrote:Lesuther's long discussion constitutes one of the most arrogant posts I've ever seen on the internet. Do you even know any of those guys, to make that sort of characterization of them on line?

I've met you a few times, as well as others that are on here. I think the shoe fits for some. I've also met some who have felt more or less the same way as I do. So I don't think there is much to be shared here, your feelings notwithstanding.

I wasn’t talking about the people on this forum. I was referring to the people featured in and who produced the video.

MTV

The teat of conflict is tapped out. No one knows who is arguing what anymore. Tomorrow, ya'll get back to be friendly and positive.