I don't think there's anything in the AIM about 123.45. I think that ICAO identifies 123.45 as the freq for transoceanic / transpolar or however they word it. I'm not sure if the FARs have any mention of it either.

RDUStinson wrote:

Guys who use 123.45 mhz as a chatter channel. That is an assigned ATC frequency, folks. It's commonly used by trans polar flights.

Interesting- there are many sources that list 123.45 as an air-to-air frequency, but some others that imply exactly what you say, MTV. I'm sure you're right- time to go back to the AIM. Thanks for learnin' me something!

Not exactly an ATC freq. 123.45 is an ICAO designated air to air frequency. If you can get your hands on an oceanic chart you can find it noted as such on the chart. It is used often in areas with no ground-air VHF coverage such as oceanic and polar crossings but I don't know that it is limited to those areas.


Oh.. and for "clear of the active".. I believe the issue is proper phraseology. There is no such thing as an "active" runway at an uncontrolled airport. "clear of runway xxx" might be appropriate but "clear of the active" is not unless you are tower controlled. In my humble opinion "clear of the runway" should only be used at an uncontrolled field if needed. Using it for every landing just clutters the frequency.

And I think (for whatever that is worth) that asking for an "airport advisory" is a leftover from days gone by when there were many fields with a Flight Service Station. That was a service that they provided. Now, with only a few scattered places with a FSS on the field, FBO's seem to have unofficially taken over that role in some places.

My pet peeve is the small airplane flying a gigantic pattern. I asked one flight instructor with a student one day where they were going. I was following them on down wind and finally gave up about three miles from the runway and turned base and final. I think I was at the gas pump before they came back from the cross-country trip that they called a traffic pattern. I suspect this comes from the modern flight schools that claim to teach airline procedures right from the start. I think they are doing their students a terrible disservice as they are teaching them to drive along a magenta line rather than look out the window and fly the airplane.

I would just like to see more people flying. I will forgive most of their errors.

TomKatz wrote:I would just like to see more people flying. I will forgive most of their errors.

That, my friend, is a good sentiment. One reason I own an airplane today, and spend more money on it than I probably should, is because I'm afraid this opportunity won''t be available to me in my retirement. If we don't get some young people involved, we are a dying breed.

I agree with NineThreeKilo, those guys broadcasting IFR holds over over strange sounding places. I am tempted to call out "Nxxx is doing practice spins over the same strange sounding place.

kg wrote:Oh.. and for "clear of the active".. I believe the issue is proper phraseology. There is no such thing as an "active" runway at an uncontrolled airport. "clear of runway xxx" might be appropriate but "clear of the active" is not unless you are tower controlled. In my humble opinion "clear of the runway" should only be used at an uncontrolled field if needed. Using it for every landing just clutters the frequency.

This one can be contextual. If you and a couple of other guys are beating up a pattern, all to the same runway, and you call it quits and call clear of the active I think they can figure it out.

kg wrote:And I think that asking for an "airport advisory" is a leftover from days gone by when there were many fields with a Flight Service Station. That was a service that they provided. Now, with only a few scattered places with a FSS on the field, FBO's seem to have unofficially taken over that role in some places.

This is a valid inquiry and it's occasionally gotten me the info I needed. All I'm really interested in is winds and what runway anyone else in the pattern is using. Knowing what runway others are using just helps with deconfliction, it doesn't necessarily mean I'll use it too. I've come back to a pattern to discover that a couple of guys are landing downhill, with a tailwind, looking into a setting sun. I thought I was missing something but it just turned out they simply liked that runway better. Whatever - I deconflicted, waited my turn, and then landed opposite direction. And when I called clear of the runway I specified the rwy number because in that case it made sense.

Re: 123.45, I was told by the Coast Guard to leave their frequency as I was flying to Put-in-Bay one day, talking air-to-air on it. It may depend on where you are, for using this frequency to chat.

Re: Chatting on an airport frequency, I listen for a bit, then join the conversation. Shuts folks up very quickly. Usually I hear some laughter, then they move to a different (air-to-air) frequency. If I want to hear the end of the story I just stay quiet.

My pet peeves involve safety, like people not looking outside when they should (which is most of the time), practicing IFR moves in VFR airspace, and cutting people off just for fun and laughing about it afterwards (I was NOT on a long final, deadstick within gliding distance of the numbers).

Ah well, wish I could go fly to get rid of my prolonged altitude deficiency, but it's not possible today.

ASW.

My pet peeve is people who don't look. I was doing T&Gs one day in my 150 a few miles South of where I live. I was making radio calls on each leg on the right frequency.

When I turned Crosswind I saw a plane start taxing to the active. He was almost to the end of the taxiway as I passed him on downwind. When I turned Base he was sitting on the hold short line. I was watching him to see if he was going to get out before I turned final. He just sat there. I turned on a landing light to be sure he could see me. When I was on final about 100 AGL he decided to pull out on the runway!!!

I thought about landing right over the top of him but common sense prevailed so I jumped over to Upwind and did a looooong and low upwind leg before turning crosswind again. I couldn't have been more than 1000 ft away from the idiot when he pulled out on the runway.

He never said a word at the airport and for him to not see me is insane. Plus I had been in the pattern for probably a half hour so he should have heard I was there when he got in his plane. He called "clear of the area" so I know he had a radio. I figure he forgot to change frequencies or turn on his radio. I know a radio isn't required and some planes don't have radios at all so LOOOOOOK!!!!!

DELETED FOR CRY BABY!!!

Whew! What a relief. 'RADIO Pet peeves'. I just saw 'Pet peeves' and I thought-BCP Pet peeves-a snowball that could start an avalanche!
I think we best not go there!



This topic goes back to where and when we learned, who from, and what our experiences have been since......
I like the observation (and example) that when you can't see the end of the runway from the other end, the phrase "Clear of active" suddenly becomes very useful and more than just a courtesy....

This is a excellent topic to stimulate thinking, and improve our individual performance-PLUS learn to (hopefully) be more tolerant of 'the other guy'........

I know-I have PLENTY of room for improvement, too....

lc

Here's the ICAO information on that frequency: ICAO Annex 10 states that “123.45 Mhz shall be designated for use as an Air-to-Air communications channel to enable aircraft engaged in flights over remote and oceanic areas, out of range of VHF ground stations, to exchange necessary operational information and to facilitate the resolution of operational problems“

And, here's a link that gives frequency assignments in the aviation bands...all of them: http://www.smeter.net/spectrum/aviation.php

I doubt that domestic use of 123.45 would be considered a cardinal sin, but why bother?? I've heard people say they use that cause "it's a secret--we call it fingers". Others say they use it to avoid congested frequencies. Seems like there are more people on THAT one than you EVER hear on 122.75, the CORRECT frequency for air to air chat. 122.85 is listed as a "multi-com" frequency, which means it can be used for air to air OR air to ground.

My point is simply why not use the ACTUAL assigned frequency?

MTV

I have a few pet peeves, the biggest is

Its the shit outside that can kill you...get all your flight guide info, car rental, and radios set before your in the pattern. Yesterday I flew the Commander right past a Cherokee pilot doing a non std pattern with his head down, 20 sec before he was calling 8 miles out.

I always manage to have my gear down before entering the pattern. I see the macho guys doing it on downwind or final.
I want to be looking out for all my aviation friends while in the pattern, not checking for green lights, settings etc.

Please put your head on a swivel, and look outside the airplane

I like it down here in NC, as apparently do lots of other folks (as indicated by the incredible population increase), but it pisses me off pretty good to have folks move in from other places and then spout off about how dumb we sound or how many ways we do things wrong.

Ok, OK. Sorry. my comment was rude. I did not intend it that way. I love the sweet sound of the local accent. and I love living here. What I don't like is the Good Ole boy chit chat on the radio. We all tend to create radio personalities. Sometimes you here a Texan when your talking to a guy from NH. I have to change tha way I annunciate words just to get the mic to work properly. The local Ag pilots add more color to it. When they talk to each other it's like a scene from "smokey and the Bandit". It sounds dumb and unprofessional, but moreover, it stomps on the other important CTAF communications.

By the way, these things don't piss me off. They are just mildly annoying. I'm sure that I have broken every pilot ediquite rule at one time or another while learning and I use to do all of these things too (except the chit chat on CTAF).

Here is another peeve: Unicom operators that think they are air trafic controllers. I had one in CT tell me she was switching me to another runway becauser the sheep in the patern were all landing with a tailwind. I kept announcing my intentions and landed safely with no conflict. I wanted to go inside and remind her that I was responsible for deciding which runway to use, but I just bit my tongue

Ok, OK. Sorry. my comment was rude.

Thanks for responding. As I mentioned, I could tell you're a fine fella. To be perfectly honest, I kinda' enjoy some of the local color sometimes, but don't hesitate to suggest less chatter if it starts to impede other needed radio traffic. And like you I'm guilty of doing lots of things wrong over the years.

This is a good topic- I've learned at least two very useful facts here.

But to add on more to the list- I'm not real fond of folks who make an immediate right turnout upon departure at an airport with standard left traffic. We had a guy who did this on EVERY departure, regardless of who was where in the pattern. And he turned a deaf ear to a local CFI who suggested that that wasn't the safest option after a student came close to trading paint with him.

I fly out of a 6700 ft runway with the taxi ways about 4500' down from the numbers on the prevailing summer runway. We will have three or four planes waiting to take off, and a guy will hit the numbers and taxi the entire way. I get frustrated and I get paid while my prop turns, I can't imagine the guy that is paying for his fuel waiting for the guy to drive down the runway.

And, air national guard c130s doing t&gs and not extending out so folks can get in and out without worrying about their wakes. The Coastie Hercs from Kodiak are always courteous.

Guys who get specials and won't say that they can maintain visual separation with other traffic so the others to use the airspace, or forget to call clear the airspace.

And top Pet Peeve: "TallyHo"

I am sure I say dumb shit stuff all the time on the radio so I don't get too critical of others. Sometimes I will shake my head at something but then that proverbial glass house and a big rock that my dad always talked about as a kid pops back into my memory. Flying is for fun so I try not to get too worked up over anything.

I am troubled when someone calls in their position and they aren't there. A lot of people think they are over a position when they look out over the nose of their aircraft and see that position out in the distance. To see if you are over a position you need to look down and see it. That includes the folks that are right in the middle of the runway and call clear of the runway.........RB

And top Pet Peeve: "TallyHo"

Yeah. Ditto!

How about unsolicited comments on your choice of mounts? My poor little ride ( the POS ) seems to compel folks to comment frequently. My favorite are the line guy/student pilots, and the guy flying his dads' A36. Regardless of who its from, the guy that acosts you on the ramp as you're heading out with your buddies, so that he can give you a small "safety lecture" on engine outs its annoying. If airplanes are mistresses, my gal might be a little wide of beam, but she has a nice personality and tries harder

So how come when a guy talks with an accent he sounds dumb but when girls talk with an accent she sounds "Sexy"

I might have figured it out! Men like dumb women!