Skydive206 wrote:I had the Chief pilot and senior crew drag me into a beat down meeting just before my upgrade to Aircraft Commander. They didnt like my 13 thousand foot call. " Wilco, climb and maintain thirteen, one, three thousand" . They didnt like the Thirteen. Spent 40 minutes defending myself. One of the Senior Commanders would still call out Tally ho and no joy. I could give a shit what he said on the radio but after 40 minutes of them spouting profesionalism on the radio, I had to bring it up. I am glad that that was all they could come up with in their premeeting. Made AC the following Monday. Sometimes Local pilots would want me to make a lot of calls for dropping meat. 3 min, 2 min, 1 min, jumpers away. At 14K feet Im stepping on a lot of unicom freqs and trying to work with Center. Some student pilot has his hands full trying to make a base call doesnt need me stepping all over him. When the freq is quiet I dont mind giving the info to help inbound pilots.

Congrats and I couldn't agree more! That is the kind of BS that creates Pilots that don't use radio communications!
If some people are not " Senior" enough to understand or know " Tally Ho" or "No Joy" the I say ask! God forbid you might learn something!
The phrase tally-ho is a largely British phrase, used in foxhunting, shouted when a rider sees the fox.

GlassPilot wrote:Thought I'd post a few of my thoughts here as I'm guilty of some and agree with others...

123.45: okay, it seems to me that 122.75 air-to-air should be reserved for guys in formation flight. That is air-to-air that's important talk and it's what air-to-air is intended for. Two guys babbling about where the truck is parked should stay off that freq. Some unused polar freq in the midwest seems like a logical choice for 'where's the truck' talk. Fingers works pretty well for me and I have never had a problem.

Agreed Peeve: Tally-Ho.

GlassPilot,

Next time you're out flying, give a LISTEN to 122.75. Mostly all you'll hear is silence. Not pilots in formation. In formation flight, you should NOT be chit chatting on the radio. Most formation can and should be done silently, pre-briefed and with hand signals and only very occasional communications. Again, listen to 122.75. Nobody uses it much. It's actually a GREAT frequency TO use, because there's never anyone on it .

"Some unused polar freq in the midwest seems like a logical choice for 'where's the truck' talk." That brings up another of MY pet peeves: The CB radio fans who have taken up flying, and just HAVE to participate in "where's the truck" talk, Good Buddy.....Talk about something that quickly identifies one as a real professional...... If you don't have something IMPORTANT to say, stay off the radio when in an airplane. Save the chit chat for the CB radio in your van.

As to Tally-Ho, everybody knows what it means. It is quick and succinct, and gets the point across. Who cares, and why?

Most times, when ATC calls traffic for me, I just reply with my ID and "In sight". That's not "exactly proper" either, but it gets the point across in minimal time.

MTV

mtv wrote:
GlassPilot,

Next time you're out flying, give a LISTEN to 122.75. Mostly all you'll hear is silence. Not pilots in formation. In formation flight, you should NOT be chit chatting on the radio. Most formation can and should be done silently, pre-briefed and with hand signals and only very occasional communications. Again, listen to 122.75. Nobody uses it much. It's actually a GREAT frequency TO use, because there's never anyone on it .

"Some unused polar freq in the midwest seems like a logical choice for 'where's the truck' talk." That brings up another of MY pet peeves: The CB radio fans who have taken up flying, and just HAVE to participate in "where's the truck" talk, Good Buddy.....Talk about something that quickly identifies one as a real professional...... If you don't have something IMPORTANT to say, stay off the radio when in an airplane. Save the chit chat for the CB radio in your van.

As to Tally-Ho, everybody knows what it means. It is quick and succinct, and gets the point across. Who cares, and why?

Most times, when ATC calls traffic for me, I just reply with my ID and "In sight". That's not "exactly proper" either, but it gets the point across in minimal time.

MTV

Okay, I'll listen to 122.75 if you listen to 123.45. They are BOTH silent. I agree pilots in formation don't talk much...which is exactly why that is a bad choice for a where's the truck freq. If they do need to talk it's almost certainly more important than where's the truck. I'm not saying I support useless conversation between planes but if it's going to happen I say use 123.45.

I also agree with "call sign, in sight" as a fine response to a traffic advisory. This is a thread on peeves and "tally-ho" is firmly in the top three as far as I can tell. Sure, most know what it means, but who cares?

A. Some don't. (site owner for one)
B. It sounds stupid.
C. It's British and we won the war! (my wife is British so stand down yank-haters). ; )
D. There are no foxes in the sky.


P.S. If you call a propeller an "air screw" then you are exempt and can use tally-ho all day long. Otherwise...it's a peeve.

Fly safe,

Jaerl wrote:I've never heard tally ho, but I already don't like it.

You've led a sheltered life

OK guys. I give up. The only time i have actually heard Tally Ho used was in an old movie with David Niven. Perhaps you old timers can enlighten me on "No Joy" and other antique phrases I might need to fly to a Senior Citizen fly in.

Propeller = Air screw
I thought Air screw = Mile high.....

Some day I'll catch up......


lc

Jaerl wrote:OK guys. I give up. The only time i have actually heard Tally Ho used was in an old movie with David Niven. Perhaps you old timers can enlighten me on "No Joy" and other antique phrases I might need to fly to a Senior Citizen fly in.

That's one of the things that keeps you young'ins in line..it keeps you guessing. Some of this old "s@%t" is so old, the newer generations have to learn it from scratch..here's mud in you eye.

123.45: okay, it seems to me that 122.75 air-to-air should be reserved for guys in formation flight. That is air-to-air that's important talk and it's what air-to-air is intended for.

Pet peeve of the year, "formation flying". After almost getting drilled by a group of RV's practicing for Oshkosh(they missed thanks to an alert controller who could see the conflict developing several miles before they reached me) and no one looking ahead. I have found that you don't need a GPS to find Oshkosh or the surrounding airports, just fly to the testosterone. Nothing better than landing where they are practicing for formation flight and group arrivals and watching the overstuffed flight suits strutting around and talking of sorties. Judging from the quote above, formation flight and the "important talk", is obviously right next to cancer cures and world peace in the important things of the universe.

Jaerl wrote:OK guys. I give up. The only time i have actually heard Tally Ho used was in an old movie with David Niven. Perhaps you old timers can enlighten me on "No Joy" and other antique phrases I might need to fly to a Senior Citizen fly in.

It's interesting that a number of the posters here think so little of "antique phrases" used on the radio today, yet much if not most of the terminology in aviation use today dates back to the first few decades of the 20th century ... if you really dislike "antique phrases", then hang out at a Trekkie convention, and don't condescend to being an aviator, who god forbid are so stuck in our ancient vocabulary.

It's also interesting that so few posters take the time to simply ask, "where did that phrase come from?"

In general, several of the antique phrases mentioned on this thread, including "tally-ho!" and "no joy" ... as well as some not mentioned here but still in common use today ("bogey in sight!") were used by World War II fighter and bomber pilots. Not only did these guys "win the war" as one poster mentioned, but they generally had balls about ten sizes larger than those sported by most of those who fly today. We all ought to have tons of respect for those guys who daily risked their lives, in ancient flying machines, for our nation and for their families, for which many gave their young lives. I would think that asking around a little about the culture that is aviation would be a useful inquiry.

It's old stuff ... but so what? Aviation wasn't invented last year. Most of the stuff pilots deal with today was dealt with a hundred years ago too, but without the benefit of most of our current technology. They had to do everything the hard way, at a much higher cost in lives. Certainly no cause for disrespect.

My coupla cents worth.

Amen, nm, Amen.......

If we yanks are suppose to say Tally Ho. Are the canucks suppose to say Tally Hosers? EH.

NASA

Tally Ho is also a term NASA uses during audio transmissions between the space shuttle crews and mission control to identify space objects, or unknown space debris that appears on camera or to the crew within visual range[4]

Air forces

This expression became commonly used during the Second World War by English-speaking fighter pilots to say that an enemy aircraft has been sighted. It is still used today for this purpose, and also applies to sighting ground targets, though it is generally shortened to "Tally."

Tally-ho is the squadron motto of 609 (West Riding) Squadron, a famous British World War II fighter squadron. 609 (WR) Sqn RAuxAF still exists today, having been reformed in 1998 at Royal Air Force Station Leeming in North Yorkshire, England, UK.[3]

The phrase is also the motto of the US Air Forces 604th ASOS (Air Support Operations Squadron) Headquartered in Uijong-bu South Korea.
[edit] Air traffic control

This phrase has since been used by civilian pilots in response to traffic advisories provided by air traffic controllers (ATC). The pilot's response "Tally" or "Tally-ho" tells air traffic controllers that the pilot has seen the air traffic in question. For example:

ATC: "ABC aircraft identifier, traffic at two o'clock, seven miles, a Boeing 737, west-bound, at 4000 feet."
Pilot: "ABC, Tally-ho."

Note that while in common use, this phrase is not in the official FAA Pilot-Controller Glossary.

nmflyguy, sorry if I ruffled your feathers. I am still trying to figure out how me joking about old phrases I've never heard over the radio implies disrespect toward our fighting men from WWII. Both my parents were in the Naval Air Corps during WWll so I doubt I would do that.

There is a college here that trains pilots and probably 5 other flight schools using two airports within 8 miles of each other. If the sun is out there are probably 5 planes in the vicinity of these airports. I have never heard either of those phrases used here and I can tell you I wasn't taught them when I was in ground school 4 years ago. I think if you flew into this valley using "No Joy" and "Tally ho" no one would have a clue what your talking about. Hell, you might as well be speaking Chinese. Wouldn't it be safer for everyone if you used terminology that everyone understands?

I've never claimed to be an aviator either. I'm just a guy who was lucky enough to learn how to fly and hopefully I can keep doing that. Anyway. sorry if I insulted you. Carry on!

What is happening at too many flight schools (I would call it 'assembly line' pilot production, or a 'mill') is new instructors (kids) are teaching kids to fly-who had been taught by kids. In this 'minimum to rating' push, a LOT gets lost-including 'the cultural' aspect or 'traditions' of the profession/avocation. Plus, I fear, more than a few things that would help these new pilots out in judgment calls and 'tight spots'.

IMHO

lc

Littlecub, I totally agree with you but in my case it was different. I started flying in my 50's and I refused to have a kid that just learned himself, teach me. I found someone who had crashed a few planes and was still alive. My instructor was in his 70's. I guess you never stop learning and that is the biggest reason I'm here. (that and it's cheaper than a movie)

We are all (hopefully) still learning, Jaerl, and we (I) appreciate your contributions to this site. I have only been on the 'edges' of aviation, but I learned from some 'interesting characters' and have been a voracious reader through the years. I have 'more to learn' in aviation than I 'have learned', so I enjoy this site for the 'learnin', and it's 'flavors & textures'.......

lc

Im sure there was some meeting at ATC discussing their pet peeves and Tally ho and No joy must have been on top of the list. They get to write the book so all the flying pilots had to change. I didnt see any communication problems with those phrases.

It's interesting to hear the old aviation phrases and learn their origin. I'd like to hear more. Tried google but no joy. All I learned is that before 1957 My tail number would have ended in Tare Jig.
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_phonetic_alphabet.php

"No joy" is used around here, and is a lot quicker than "Sorry, I don't have the traffic in sight." Everyone understands that phrase, even if they haven't heard it before. "Tally ho" is a mystery, and isn't used here. Maybe it's regional.

As far as old or new, my taildragger just reeks of "old."

And thanks for the beer nog tip!

ASW.

Must be winter.

The hottest thread on the board right now is "Pet Peeves"

it doesn't bother me a bit a pilot Saying "Tally-Ho", "No Joy", "Clear of the active", "Traffic in the area please advise". etc.etc.

What would bother me would be a pilot saying:

"Can I axe you a question" to the controller.
"Word" When the tower says cleared to land.
"Yo Dog, that ain't cool!" to another pilot trying to depart the active runway while another plane is on final.

Let's hope it never comes to this...

I think the AIM has it as " Negative Contact" and "Traffic In Sight" . I can see that ATC and pilots would want it standardized so it is quick and clear. ATC is looking for one of those phrases over other noise in there headset. Why it needed to be changed I have no idea.