I am expecting to bring home a 46 t craft that is wearing 8.50 tires is it reasonable to expect to be able to land on Mississippi sand bars with them? I have never walked the bars but have landed a just Super stol on 29s which made light tracks. I am well aware that not ever sand bar is the same. just looking for info on what is too soft and a good way to tell.

Good question and I encountered the same problem. I landed on something muddy which already had cracks on the surface from drying but an inch or two deeper it was still so soft that I could not get the plane to roll for take off without the two of us moving it out of the mud. I have no idea on how to know if a surface which appears dry and hard is not muddy underneath.

8.50s on sandbars? No way. 29s have excellent float on sand. 26" Goodyears are doable but not ideal on soft sand, much less float than the 29s. Landing soft sand on 8.50s and you may expect to leave the plane there.
Jim

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What Glacier said, mostly. I've landed a lot of sandbars and beaches on 8.50 tires. A T Craft is light enough you can get away with some stuff that wouldn't be good in a heavier plane.

But, as Glacier says, you have to learn to "read" those surfaces. Sand is one thing.....silt is something quite different. Wet silt can be ugly.

But look at some of this stuff from the ground, and try to get a feel for what it'll look like from the air. Then carefully roll the tires on LIGHTLY. Then take as many of those passes as it takes to get a good feel for the surface.

Right after first landing on a bar, STOP. Get out and walk around, looking for ugly spots, obstacles, etc. only after you've explored the bar, get in and taxi.

Do that a while and your assessment skills will improve.

But always remember that any off airport landing MAY result in damage to your plane and ego. If you're willing to take that risk, go for it.

MTV

That's why you get someone else to land first!

Gump

Sometimes impossible to find out just by looking at it, and I have plenty of experience in this subject thru 20 plus years plus as a professional dirt bike rider/racer.
Sometimes looks dry , even some dust on top and 200 yards later, top dry layer breaks,you sink into the mud and stops you very abruptly,lots of work to get the bike out, there will be no damage sometimes it has a hard layer of dry mud 2 inches thick , or dry sand on top ,and that is all.

Definitely will put a plane on its back.

Find out if it has been raining lately, has it been warm and sunny afterwards?Not only by looking.
As MTV says roll it.

A very light plane with big tires might get away with more than a dirt bike though.

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I'm no expert on sandbar landings, but from a common sense point of view, if you want to land on sandbars which you haven't verified from the ground, it's just moronic not to be running the biggest bushwheels your airplane will handle.

Stacking up a multi-thousand dollar airplane and risking injury rather than spend a couple thousand dollars on tires that give you a VASTLY better chance of success is the definition of poor economy and bad decision making.

There's really no reason to land on the sandbar...right? It's a game. If you want to play the game, buy the right equipment.

I land my 140 with 8.50s on gravel bars (not sand) without any issues. Really just depends on the size of the rocks on gravel bars. Never used them on sand though.

Not tire-specific, but useful:

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/knowle ... t-landings

GumpAir wrote:That's why you get someone else to land first!

Gump

...using their airplane!

Cary

Yeah I agree with the others, it's fine provided someone else goes first to check it out. But on your own it would be a very risky proposition.

I've landed 8.00s on sandbars at 2,400 lbs landing weight, but I was following a plane with 29" tires to ensure the surface was good enough.

Wet seaside beaches are a different story, with experience you can read those from the air and should be OK provided you follow the advice posted elsewhere on this forum. Stay away from creeks, high spots, etc.

There are some 29in airstreaks in the classifieds that would be perfect for you

"That's why you get someone else to land first! "


We have a stepped procedure for new SAND BARS
1- R44 and walk around
2- 31's &inspect
3- 29's &inspect
4- 26's &inspect
5- 850's and little shit to follow

I guess you guys should have explained all this to one of the bear guides who used hunt the Alaska Peninsula. He flew a Super Cub.....on 8.50 tires. And he pretty much went where he needed to take his clients......all ocean beaches and cinder blow outs.

MTV

See, MTV's comment just reminds me how foolish I feel sweating landings when these old salts show up on a milk run with stock gear.
I freely admit I'm a sissy when trying a new location solo.
Cheaper. At least that's my rationalization.

I find it really interesting that advice on this site always seems to vacillate between 'Fly what you got' and 'You'd be foolish to attempt anything risky without a Pilatus and 10,000 hours flying in the mountains with only one wing'.

Wasn't it about a year ago that Zane posted the story about the guy that flew the Rockies in his 150?

To be clear, some of us (me) really do need the 10,000 hours before pushing the limits of our equipment, but I find a lot of value in the pro/con discussions that ensue when somebody like the OP ask about pushing the limits.

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glacier wrote:There is still a strong sense of adventure alive here. But nobody likes seeing a plane on its nose either.

Sand can vary from hard enough to roller skate on to soft enough to bury almost anything short of a light cub on 35's. The two ends of this spectrum can be present in the same vicinity on a beach or a bar. The advice given here also spans this spectrum, and is just really hard to give, let alone to give over the internet.

Re-reading, my post sounds unintentionally smartass.

I didn't mean to imply that you or MTV were unjustly pointing out potential downfalls. The OP was clearly asking about the risks and got informed answers from informed sources.

Moreso I meant to underline that when back country aviation is the topic of discussion, there is always the angel and devil discussions that take place on the pilot's shoulder.

The 'What can a 182 do?' thread is a great example. Some say you're crazy, others say they do it all the time.