So my dad and I have an elk draw next month in a defined hunting area in Idaho. We went out a week ago to give the plane some excersize and see if we could find any elk. We covered quite a bit of land and saw a lot of cattle but no elk... I expected the elk to be in the lower country since we got a good amount of snow the week before, so we spent most of our time looking below the tree line and near water sources (a few creeks and drainages in the area)

Having never done this before, any tips on scouting big game (terrain to look for, altitude AGL, etc.)? We brought binoculars as well but they ended up being too high-powered for that application. Maybe it is just fruitless but it's still a good reason to go fly around for an hour or two.

Learn up on moose stalls. Fly a 'racetrack' pattern rather than turns around a point.

Probably against the law if done to close to your hunting day or to opening day. Better look into that. I would hate to see a Tripacer up for auction on Idaho Fish and Game site.

tim

Don't crash....it'll ruin your hunting season.

MTV

Bob Plumber with thousands of hours of Middle Fork flying died doing what you will be doing. You do the flying and let your passenger do the looking.

Tim

Early morning or evening right before it gets too dark to see are best times to spot elk. If you're planning on hunting low country then yes, near water is a good bet.

As far as the flying goes, I like 400' agl. DO NOT spot uphill. Start at the top and work your way to lower country. Not sure what you're flying but a Cessna likes a little flap, I like to use the faster side of the white arc, but I'm a devout coward. Good advice to take a spotter, and don't forget to fly the airplane.

Good luck, hope you find a real dinger!

gbflyer wrote:Early morning or evening right before it gets too dark to see are best times to spot elk. If you're planning on hunting low country then yes, near water is a good bet.

As far as the flying goes, I like 400' agl. DO NOT spot uphill. Start at the top and work your way to lower country.

That is what I did when scouting Moose a few years back. 400agl was what I liked.

qmdv wrote:Probably against the law if done to close to your hunting day or to opening day. Better look into that. I would hate to see a Tripacer up for auction on Idaho Fish and Game site.

tim

Avemco doesn't like aerial game spotting either

denalipilot wrote:

qmdv wrote:Probably against the law if done to close to your hunting day or to opening day. Better look into that. I would hate to see a Tripacer up for auction on Idaho Fish and Game site.

tim

Avemco doesn't like aerial game spotting either

Is that in your policy? Never knew or saw the clause.

(I heard the moose are getting a little pissed too)

8GCBC wrote:

denalipilot wrote:Avemco doesn't like aerial game spotting either

Is that in your policy? Never knew or saw the clause.

(I heard the moose are getting a little pissed too)

It is, right alongside prisoner transport, aerial seeding, fire patrol, and closed-course racing.

Some good advice so far, moose stalls can be deadly I try to make a straight pass to look at critters rather than circle them. I find that 400 ft. frightens game, (my plane is loud) and I can see a lot more country from a little higher up. I generally fly about 700 ft. AGL or even a little higher when spotting moose in flat country.
In Elk country one thing to really watch out for are dry dead snags. They are very very hard to see in failing light (evenings) and they will rake you right out of the sky.
If it were me I would start looking from quite high, it is easy to see a herd of elk from even 2000 ft. agl. Unless you are trying to see how many points are on the horns you don't need to be real close. The animals won't be disturbed by several high passes and you can see where they are in relation to terrain from a higher view point. This also give you a lot more of a safety margin.
Fly down canyon and be on the lookout for power lines and such.
Have fun.

Thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought of the legality and will check on that and the insurance policy. I don't recall my policy not allowing it but won't hurt to read it again. I have seen commercial ops offer "Scouting packages" so I am pretty sure it is legal. And to be clear, I am talking about exploring the area by air and trying to get a feel where the game might be and then finding out if there is anyway to get there by vehicle several weeks before we actually go hunting... not finding game while others are hunting and relaying GPS coordinates or something unethical like that. Last flight we were around 1000' AGL, maybe will try going a bit lower if weather is good.

Early on in my student training 42 years ago, my instructor warned me about "moose stalls". From 500' AGL or so, it was easy to spot a moose on the north side of the Knik Arm, and since I was learning to do turns around a point anyway, we did a few turns around a moose. He explained that if I was to be doing that for real, i.e., spotting moose for hunting purposes, I should fly the airplane, and someone else should do the spotting.

Same rule for SAR flights. I've done both, and in each case, I did the flying and paid attention to the flying, and the spotter did the spotting. If the spotter wanted to get lower, I would determine if it was safe to do so.

Unless it's a large herd, though, it's awfully hard to see any animals at 2000' AGL. 500' seems to work fairly well.

Cary

In case anyone was curious, I did check my insurance policy and it is not prohibited. I also checked the statues in Idaho Title 36 , chapter 11.5 and found what I am wanting to do is not illegal. At Tim mentioned, time is the factor and it is not allowed on the same calendar day as the hunt. I am well aware of the "moose stall" and am happy to do the flying while others do the spotting. Hopefully if we try it again we will at least see something.

If you go fly strait lines, when your spotter sees something fly straight right on by, when you have gone by, count potatoes, after about 4 turn right or left about 90 count 2 potatoes then 270 back to your left right, when you hit your track count 2 more and it should be right out the window! go right on past and do it again, you never will get in a moose stall, and your spotter won't fill his hat after the 6th turn!!
Have fun, also poke the gps right before you get there!!
GOOD LUCK!!

scottf wrote:In case anyone was curious, I did check my insurance policy and it is not prohibited. I also checked the statues in Idaho Title 36 , chapter 11.5 and found what I am wanting to do is not illegal. At Tim mentioned, time is the factor and it is not allowed on the same calendar day as the hunt. I am well aware of the "moose stall" and am happy to do the flying while others do the spotting. Hopefully if we try it again we will at least see something.

I checked my Avemco policy also and it didn't have an exclusion, so at least some of their policies allow it. It didn't have exclusions for seeding or firefighting either, which has me wondering if maybe the previous poster has a commercial policy and that's why the language is different?

Like M6RV6 said. Fly normal passes and spotter look out the side window as you pass. At the end of each race track, an energy management turn is the only really safe turn unless you go so wide you have to look for the target again. It is like race track spraying. The only difference in the energy management turn and a normal level turn is that you trade off cruise speed for altitude to start the turn and then trade that extra altitude for airspeed to end the turn. When slowed (wings level) sufficiently for a nice tight radius of turn, allow the nose to fall through naturally as you increase the bank angle. Don't hold back on the stick. 400' is plenty. We usually never get higher than 200' spraying. Be sure to level the wing before pulling up from the resulting dive.

If you are alone, a gun run and observation out the left front windscreen is safer than looking out the side window. Overfly the target and count a couple of potatoes before pulling up from the run or each run will get lower and slower.

I don't know why, but elk are not bothered by helicopters like they are with airplanes. Hueys throw that whap, whap rotor sound to the front and are very quiet abeam.

I'd just suggest that in your "energy management turn", be careful of managing energy verses attitude, power available, and descent rate.

http://youtu.be/BcTDwJcO_os

Brett

I hate that video. Poor decision making compounded with a lack of understanding of altitude effects.

They're lucky that they didn't hurt any of the ground guys and that they survived.

UH-60andC-180 wrote:I'd just suggest that in your "energy management turn", be careful of managing energy verses attitude, power available, and descent rate.

http://youtu.be/BcTDwJcO_os

Brett

That is some heavy action.