We had one warm day in January so I went up to practice some short field stuff. Posting here because I WANT to hear your critique. I was shooting for the numbers on landing, and using all of the runway on takeoff. Measuring the runway markings on google earth, best I can tell I was landing in 370ft, and taking off in about 400ft. My goal is to get into the backcountry....

Airplaneflyer,

Very good job. I especially liked the brisk walk rate of closure on short final and the side video of the dynamic proactive rudder pedals on the right floor.

Two areas that could use some work. On takeoff you didn't use the entire runway for acceleration in low ground effect. You don't need to do that, but you will have all available kinetic energy (airspeed) when you stay in low ground effect (or at least level) until going as fast as possible. Second, the absolutely leave the ailerons neutral is not just a stall drill. It's most important use (or nonuse in this case) is during final. The only way to really drill this is to remove your hands during stall and use only the thumb and right finger (like a bedouin) to work the elevator only (no aileron) on landing. When there is a crosswind, set the bank angle with aileron and then just use thumb and forefinger.

Your wing wagging was very minimal and almost everyone does it. In a nasty crosswind with lots of gust spread, it can become unsafe very quickly. Practice directing your course to distant targets (between your legs) using rudder only. Trim, direct, and then keep the target between your legs with rudder while keeping your hands on your lap.

Again, very good job. You have the concept. You just have to get nit picky. There will be a time when it makes all the difference.

Contact

Excellent job. Contact has wonderful advice to add to your practice regimen.

One thing to perhaps focus on as well is "hitting your spot." Determine where you must touch down when you're on downwind. Hit that spot every time. If you don't hit the spot, go around. Landing "short" doesn't matter if you're past the touch down point on an already barely long enough "strip."

On the level cruise cross country directed course to distant targets, post after post like building a fence, the static reactive rudder movement MTV suggested in another post is adequate. Just use rudder with your hands on your lap. If crabbing into a crosswind, we simply direct our butt to the target with rudder.

Continuous dynamic reactive light rudder movement works best on final. My tail wagging. On the surface, in tailwheel airplanes, it is absolutely necessary. Some think they don't do it, some admit it. It is necessary to stay ahead of the airplane without emergency differential braking to attempt fixing a too late (not proactive) rudder movement. Proactive, we control. Reactive, the beast controls.

Too many goofy confusing words. It's called just "doing that pilot shit".

If possible try to land at 2-3 or even more runways on the same flight. This will help tune you up on all the little things that screw up a good landing. Practicing at the same runway and same conditions does not make you think hard enough. Your numbers are about what I could do in my pacer. Remember once you add full fuel, passenger, and camping gear they can double or triple. So do some practice at gross weight also. Even at sea level I would try to stick to 1,000 ft or better strips
DENNY

"The right stuff" would be a little more descriptive, but mean nothing to the student. Sort of like the hover button. We all are moving from where we are to where we want to be. Communication happens when the picture in mind A is formed in mind B. Spoken or written language, code, pictures, diagrams, charts, demonstrations, simulations, and multimedia that are infectious work best. Both A and B need some fluency in the language or code used.

Words or phrases that are used for their ring, flavor, or political correctness soon lose the little bit of infectiousness they start with. They are cliche or too common to communicate anything.

Do you have a stall horn in your airplane? I didn't hear it if you do. In my airplane I hear the stall horn on my shortest landings and when I pop the flaps for super short take off.

What you are doing looks perfectly fine to me, and plenty tight enough to go play in small short strips.

schu

I would love to see video of short approach technique, no power. Let's say you're in the pattern downwind midfield on a 5000 runway and tower wants to make room for a straight in at 3 miles. Rather than extend your down wind he/she says' "Cessna 123H make short approach if able.

If your goal is to get into the backcountry, then the quality of your take-offs and landings is more than adequate for that. I'd say they're almost off-airport worthy in fact! I have a very similar plane - a Cessna 140 with the flaps similar to yours. It absolutely gets off the ground shorter if I start with full flap from the get go. Why? Because it allows the tail to come up sooner (basically as soon as I have full power in). I'd be curious to see if this is also the case with your plane.

Getting to flying speed has many factors involved. What are you flying off of? Tar, hard dirt, sand, mud, tundra, deep grass, or snow. Tire size and low/high pressure. Power, prop, wing load, flaps, cross wind, headwind, or tailwind. Wide open area vs tight curve with stumps/rock. Picking the tail up early with full flaps adds drag and may slow the plane depending on above factors. If you do not need the visibility that a high tail adds, leaving it low may result in a shorter takeoff. Having said all of this, I will pick the tail up if any question of the path in front of me. Pacer drivers are the kings of ground roll without seeing what is ahead of them!! In my cub 19 turns nose down trim means if the tail comes up it will fly when I go from 1/2 to full flaps, at min or max gross weight, no wind, tail wind, big headwind. I learned in a pacer so flying the first 300 ft by smell is normal for me.
DENNY

Wow! Tons of great advice. Thanks you guys are awesome. I’m going to try summarize in one post instead of respond to all of them. Here’s what my brain absorbed…

Use ground effect to accelerate after takeoff.

Always be aiming for a spot (I was using the “numbers” as my spot for this one.)

I understand that I need to practice at different fields and environments, not all strips are going to be the same. I just wanted to get it down in a controlled environment before moving to more complex things.

I do have a stall horn, that seams to be a squawk at the moment, since it doesn’t always work.

Mister701, I have just the video for you, I got cleared to cut in front of traffic on short final while I was on downwind. I accepted the challenge I’ll have to go find it.

I am going to experiment with a few different trim and flap settings on takeoff and see if any of them feel or work better. I don’t need to get the tail up for forward vis in the 170.

Some other advice I’ve gotten on reddit:

Aim a little short of “spot” and transition a little further behind the power curve, and then to really cut the power when I get to my touchdown spot. What I’ve been doing is waiting for the mains to touch and then I’d milk out power. This did come with the caveat that it’s a good way to break your tail wheel in the backcountry, so I guess only use when absolutely necessary.

Airplaneflyer wrote:....I do have a stall horn, that seams to be a squawk at the moment, since it doesn’t always work.....

My ragwing 170 didn't have a stall warning (horn buzzer or light)-- not required by TCDS.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... Rev_55.pdf

contactflying wrote:.......Words or phrases that are used for their ring, flavor, or political correctness soon lose the little bit of infectiousness they start with. .

From just a couple posts on this thread: "apparent brisk walk rate of closure", "dynamic proactive rudder", "static reactive rudder", "continuous dynamic reactive light rudder movement".
From other threads: "reserve of zoom airspeed", and a bunch of others I can't recall right now..
I've been into flying for 23 years, have read and talked with people about flying all that time, and you are the only person I've ever heard say this stuff. Or at least putting it into those words.
Don't know about anyone else but most of the time your phraseology confuses me.
I find "how do I hydroplaning the wheels" easier to understand.
Maybe I'm just a dumbass but you need to communicate to the lowest common denominator to be effective.

hotrod180 wrote:

contactflying wrote:.......Words or phrases that are used for their ring, flavor, or political correctness soon lose the little bit of infectiousness they start with. .

From just a couple posts on this thread: "apparent brisk walk rate of closure", "dynamic proactive rudder", "static reactive rudder", "continuous dynamic reactive light rudder movement".
From other threads: "reserve of zoom airspeed", and a bunch of others I can't recall right now..
I've been into flying for 23 years, have read and talked with people about flying all that time, and you are the only person I've ever heard say this stuff. Or at least putting it into those words.
Don't know about anyone else but most of the time your phraseology confuses me.
I find "how do I hydroplaning the wheels" easier to understand.
Maybe I'm just a dumbass but you need to communicate to the lowest common denominator to be effective.

Yep, I agree Hotrod, hard to follow at times.

Airplaneflyer,

Dont use the numbers while practicing, give yourself some room for mistakes. I suggest the 500 foot marks or some place a bit further down the runway than the numbers. If you use the numbers you risk landing short which you won't do because you will add power but then you just made kinda wasted a pattern (well not really but you did not accomplish what you wanted). If you use a conservative spot further down the runway you can safely be more "aggressive" in your practice. If you can consistently hit you spot where ever it may be in practice then you will be able to hit it when it counts in the real world.

Another thing to practice, try to consistantly hit your spot power off, reduce power on the downwind, this helps reinforce the skills needed to put the airplane where you want it after the engine quits. By using a target spot further down the runway and not the numbers you can safely land short if you misjudge and correct in your next pattern and landing. I think you will discover you will be flying a closer tighter base and final leg than you have flown in the past. Power off practice is important and after you "master" that, then try different techniques with and without power and become proficient with those then when you need to land short you can use what ever technique is required for the mission.

As far as rudder is concerned, I may over simplify things when I say "manipulate the controls until the desired effect is achieved" but it pretty much sums it up. I am NOT a believer of "dynamic use of rudder" or dancing on the rudder pedals if the airplane is tracking straight and rudder correction is not needed. Don't fix it if it aint broke! Respond quickly and with the appropriate amount when needed, its as simple as that.

There is so much to talk about in this area but only so much typing is possible, this just scratches the surface. I hope some of this helps. If you would like to chat on the phone, give me a pm and we can exchange numbers.

Have fun!

Kurt

Looks great to me.

RKTX wrote:Looks great to me.

Just trying to be like you... literally

Hope things are well man.

hotrod180 wrote:

contactflying wrote:.......Words or phrases that are used for their ring, flavor, or political correctness soon lose the little bit of infectiousness they start with. .

From just a couple posts on this thread: "apparent brisk walk rate of closure", "dynamic proactive rudder", "static reactive rudder", "continuous dynamic reactive light rudder movement".
From other threads: "reserve of zoom airspeed", and a bunch of others I can't recall right now..
I've been into flying for 23 years, have read and talked with people about flying all that time, and you are the only person I've ever heard say this stuff. Or at least putting it into those words.
Don't know about anyone else but most of the time your phraseology confuses me.
I find "how do I hydroplaning the wheels" easier to understand.
Maybe I'm just a dumbass but you need to communicate to the lowest common denominator to be effective.

I don't have any trouble following Contact, though I sometimes have to stop and actually THINK about what he's saying. I'm guessing that's part of learning something new, or thinking about something in a new way. I don't find it distressing.

As for communicating to the lowest common denominator...that's just what we need. Let's dumb everything down until the art and science of flight is expressed as "doing that pilot shit". That'll REALLY help people improve their understanding of flying.

Expecting Contact to communicate on your level of understanding is reasonable if you're paying him for training. Otherwise it's on you to put on your thinking cap, or skip his posts.

I think you may have missed Hotrods point Hammer, I don't think he meant to say dumb down the message, but simplify the delivery so the message can be clearly received. At least that is how I interpreted it.

Kurt