richpiney wrote:It's amazing the contrast between here and the Aopa forum. I posted the same thing there, with the genuine intent to see if someone could give me just one little thing that would improve my technique. They are beating me up and scaring me to the point I am considering pulling the video.
Richard

I'd like to preface my statement by saying that AOPA is a wonderful organization that consistently aids in the GA community. That being said, they're also some members who have never seen anything but pavement and will chastise you because of your video. They see it as being a dumb pilot that doesn't follow the exact poh rules and pushes the limits... I think you showed great technique in your video and used most of the performance that the c150 offers. I applaud you going out on a limb to improve your skills via the experience of others. Never stop learning.

Might as well milk that 150 for all it's worth, as long as you know where the edge actually is. The POH numbers are determined at max gross with some safety margin built in, so of course you're always going to be able to improve upon them if you're operating as light as possible in favorable conditions. I think there's still something to be said for maintaining a little personal buffer of performance though for when that mysterious unexpected downdraft appears or there's a little loss of power because you're just then discovering an exhaust gasket has worked its way loose. Oddly specific scenarios, I know

True, but like was said a page or two back. Not much different in exposure from some of the Super Cub or C185 action we see on here, working the gravel bars with a water assist to get in or out. Ragged edge is ragged edge, and if something stumbles or burps.... Well, you're gonna go swimming.

Knowing where that edge is, and being able to consistently perform there is just a matter of skill and experience. Some guys get there, some guys don't.

Gump

Judgement about edges come from experience. Technique can be taught. No agency will give you any paper for good maneuvering flight techniques, but they can save your life. Political correctness will not allow takeoff and landing to be maneuvering flight, but they are. Sanctioned flight school techniques do not adequately cover maneuvering flight techniques. They chose the term. We old guys just called it flying.

.

"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions" Unknown

You have to listen to the people who have a negative opinion as well as those who have positive opinion. Just to make sure that you are blending all these opinions in your mind before a decision is made.

Cheers

Ha Ha! Those AOPA pros sure get their panties in a wad easily.

Gump

Well said OregonMaule. We all have to make our own decisions based on both facts and what we want from life. Avoidance works fine for those who don't want to go near the edge. Training works fine for those who do. My fuss is that training for a crop duster, if written, must parrot training for an airline pilot. We who teach have to go off the reservation to get the job done.

Thanks Gump for coming to my defense on Aopa and posting what you did. It seems like it was probably a mistake posting something like that there. It's not a stunt, I have landed there numerous times and will continue to do so as long as it meets minimum standards.

The manual flaps are awesome and while a Bush Stol kit is not a sportsman it gets the job done. If I had not written on there that I used 20 degrees of flaps nobody would know the difference. One thing I know for a fact is Cessnas love flaps and if you don't use them for takeoff you should certainly try it. Take a look at Willie Stenes
Procedures for the sportsman and you will see that at one point 30 degrees of flaps are best.

I don't believe it wise for me to post more video on Aopa but at some point I will share on backcountry the complete story of our journey with this aircraft. A common every day trainer using energy management techniques and carefully choosing the window of opportunity is capable of much more than POH pavement pilots could ever comprehend.

Thanks for the support of you all.
Richard

It was a fun ride, the video got a lot of views. It has given me a new respect for my backcountry buddies whom I have never met. It caused too much controversy and some pretty intense comments on AOPA. I will fade into the shadows.

Let it be a lesson to me!

Hey, I almost forgot. My Flying Hawkes buddy gave me Bound For The Backcountry II (Richard Holm) for Christmas

Another awesome book. On second thought maybe I shouldn't have read the first one....

Richard

Bound for the Backcountry 2???????

Tell me more.

www.coldmountainpress.com

Bound for the Backcountry II – A History of Airstrips in the Wallowas, Hells Canyon, and the Lower Salmon River



The backcountry of west central Idaho and eastern Oregon has some of the better winter and spring flying opportunities found anywhere in the Northwest. For the first time a comprehensive history of more than forty of the isolated airstrips in the region has been compiled, detailing the construction and historical events of each. The book covers the airstrips of the Wallowa Mountains (Eagle Cap Wilderness), the middle Snake River (Hells Canyon Dam to Cache Creek), and the lower Salmon River (American Bar to the Snake River). Combined with the history of each individual location are interesting stories related to homesteaders, ranchers, runway owners, hunters, river rafters, jet boaters, hikers, pilots, and airplanes. Maps highlight an incredible amount of information and the book includes 250+ black and white photographs. The book is 251 pages, measures 8.5 X 11, and is softbound with a heavy matte finish cover.

Price: $29.95

Shipping:$6.00
- See more at: http://www.coldmountainpress.com/#sthash.BaBWrRna.dpuf

How cool is that?

I know almost nothing of the history from that side of highway 95. Gotta have it. Thanks!

And don't listen to the stretchy pants crowd over at the other forum. It really did get weird.

Rich, that looked good to me. I liked 20*s of flap for short takeoffs when I was flying a C150. It worked real well. I never has a STOL kit, but did have vgs and 8.00s on the mains, 6.00 on the nose. Made a big difference in the longer grass. Keep it up, and keep the videos coming here. We love watching guys like you working that plane real good.

David

Awesome! I think pulling up hard across the obstacles set you up perfect for a slow speed turn down the canyon, much like the crop dusters, nice job!

Nice to see what a 150 will do with a good pilot! Nice work!

robw56 wrote:Nice to see what a 150 will do with a good pilot! Nice work!

I agree! Good work!

Why did the original video get pulled?

Terry,

Three parts of the energy management turn in this case: zoom up wings level, turn as necessary to put the nose down the drainage, allow the nose to fall naturally in the turn (don't pull back) to prevent load factor or mush or stall.

Jim

Milford Sound wrote:Why did the original video get pulled?

The comments over on the AOPA forums are amazingly brutal and predictable. All these "old pro" CFI's and pavement flyers sporting hard ons trying to out-criticize our young pilot here, and yet not a single one of them actually understand the techniques used that they're seeing in the video. Too busy quoting cut-and-pasted pages from a C150 POH, and attacking anyone who questions their smug superiority.

http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p ... ost1778830

One dipshit on there picked up on the use of ground effect, but instead of actually paying attention to what Rich did, he made some comment about "wallowing around in ground effect" and continued his chest beating. This video was a beautiful example of NOT wallowing in ground effect, in fact the exact opposite, in that once off the ground the nose comes down and he uses that drag free cushion to accelerate.

The old guys who learned me to fly gotta be rolling over in their graves.... Different world now.

Gump