Hello everyone, first post here but I've been snooping for a long time. I'm looking for suggestions for a reasonably good performing STOL tailwheel that my son can also train in for his private and build time for other ratings. I have a few ideas but the info on those aircraft seem lacking, or not correct. I have two runways, one is 1100' (no obstacles and the other 1500' (power lines on one end). Both are one way in, one way out and sometimes require landing with a tailwind. I used to fly a 7GCAA Citabria out of there all the time. So far I've come up with the following but can't seem to find reliable TOLD on them. I prefer a stick, but will use a steering wheel if necessary. 2 place or 4 place, doesn't matter. Also, needs to be something good for my son to learn in. All input and suggestions welcome. Thanks!

Stinson with at least the 165hp Franklin (the only reference I found to TOLD data for the stinson was abysmal. I see too many advocates for it as a backcountry airplane to actually require 2400' for takeoff.

Luscombe (8E just because I don't want my son hand propping as a student pilot)

Aeronca Sedan- Another one I can't seem to find much data on.

7GCBC, PA20

Also this
https://barnstormers.com/classified-157 ... atid=17392

PA-16 Clipper or PA-20 Pacer, although they may test the budget.

Welcome. Instructor and techniques more critical than airplane, but smaller power to weight tends to equal better STOL trainer. The higher percentage of other than engine energy, the more instructive.

Newer F-21 Taylorcraft if you can find one under 30k.

Kurt

Cessna 140? They will get out of a 1000 foot strip except for high density days.

I always wondered how well a 140 would perform. A friend passed away a few months ago and he has/had a 140 with an O-290. I just looked at it a couple days ago when I was told that his son is now taking care of the estate and it's for sale. I would definitely consider it if I were in the market for a plane. He said it was a heck of a skiplane.

Had a 7AC Champ with an O-235 that was a very good performer.

As mentioned, the Taylorcraft seem to have a good following also. Have several friends with various T-carts and they all seem to really like them.

Taught my son his license on my 7GCBC - with 160 hp was overpowered for a runway trainer, but came into its own teaching off-airport stuff (contactflying already said that). Paid way less than 30k eight years ago - wood spar, bad cosmetics which for a training beater was ok, plus because it was cheap I never bothered with hull insurance. For me a trainer had to have a stick in the right hand and throttle on the left, tandem seating. Made him to learn to drive on a stick shift too. Tough love.

WWhunter wrote:I always wondered how well a 140 would perform. A friend passed away a few months ago and he has/had a 140 with an O-290. I just looked at it a couple days ago when I was told that his son is now taking care of the estate and it's for sale. I would definitely consider it if I were in the market for a plane. He said it was a heck of a skiplane.

Had a 7AC Champ with an O-235 that was a very good performer.

As mentioned, the Taylorcraft seem to have a good following also. Have several friends with various T-carts and they all seem to really like them.

Don't Discount the Cessna 140. Dustin Mosher aka Flying Fiddler is on here occasionally. He has a real good Instagram account and youtube. He fly's his C-85 powered C140 all over the South West and West. Almost daily. He fly's into all sorts of dirt strips. He really has demonstrated that its more the pilot's ability than the airplane that matter's. I own a Stock Cessna 150L and fly it from Las vegas, often visiting dirt and gravel strips in the dessert. I would;t discount a converted O-200 powered Cessna 150 taildragger either.

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm kind of surprised no one bit on the Stinson. I'm looking at Taylorcrafts and may even consider a 140 with the right engine. I will rarely operate above 2000' DA and am most interested in a shorter landing distance/lower stall speed. I do have obstacles at the end of one of my runways, but can use the 1100' without them. I read the 140 specs and TO over a 50' obstacle at SL was almost 2000'... Same for the Pacers, but everyone talks about what an underrated STOL aircraft it is. Am I missing something?

Getting tail up as quickly as possible increases acceleration. Getting the mains off as quickly as possible increases the amount of time in low ground effect which increases acceleration. Using dynamic proactive elevator to immediately level the nose in low ground effect increases acceleration. Waiting until we can zoom just over the obstruction increases acceleration.

Above works with all the airplanes mentioned including Stinson. Above works with any small airplane, but unfortunately is seldom learned with big engines on little airplanes. The really unfortunate thing is that once low ground effect is abandoned by climbing out of low ground effect, that free extra energy cannot be recovered. That hurts when we discover we actually needed more energy, even with a big engine.

Taylorcraft F19, or updated older B-series, seem to be to go-to for inexpensive bush planes in AK. There are possibly more up here than down in the lower 48, so maybe that plays a part in their popularity here.

Not sure how many on the N register but I soloed in a Fleet Canuck some 45 years ago (gasp), nice, sturdy 90HP tailwheel aircraft.

The Canuck is a sweet bird but I don't imagine there are very many south of the 49th parallel

I don't think you can consider an aircraft "STOL" unless the power-to-weight ratio meets a certain minimum. Otherwise it's just a lightly wing-loaded trainer, with an often unfavorable amount of power that makes takeoffs pretty long.

Interesting, my flapless 90HP Super Cub is close to 17lbs/HP at gross weight, compared to around 12lbs/HP in the beefier -150 Super Cub. But practically it seems to operate from as short a strip, albeit without density altitude issues.

It also operates out of much shorter strips than the 8lbs/HP Pitts S-2A

When I started looking, a few months ago, there was a PA-18-135 for sale. I paused the search when the Covid hit. Wish I had bought it. I bet the 90 is a blast.

Fleet Canuck is a great airplane, however only one in US. Mine.
I could help import one, but mine is not for sale.

d.grimm wrote:Fleet Canuck is a great airplane, however only one in US. Mine.
I could help import one, but mine is not for sale.

I know of a nice one for sale in alberta...