Update 1: Bought a Bearhawk 4-place kit, December 2013
Update 2: Had first child October 2015
Update 3: Had second child September 2017
Update 4: Bought a Pacer April 2018. Got a vasectomy 1 weeks later.

Still building...

----------------------------

Original post, 2011:

I'm going to build an airplane, despite FloatFlyer constantly trying to talk me out of it. It's going to happen and my target kit buy date is next Fall. That means I have the summer to attend OshKosh and Arlington and maybe even visit some factories.

I sold my Cessna 170B for a few different reasons, one of which was to devote some time and money to my new house, but the other reason, and just as important, is the fact that I am no longer interested in owning certified aircraft. I started in the Experimental/ultralight world, and I enjoy it. I want something shiny and new that's configured and rigged the way I want, without jumping through the field approval and STC hoops.

I've become drawn back to the 100-hp class of tailwheel airplanes that are becoming so much more popular these days with the LSA rules, like the Kitfox 7, the Highlander, and the Rans S7. These little airplanes are capable of completing my mission about 80% of the time-- fun flying within 50 miles of home, VFR, and off-airport. They will provide better performance than my 170, come close to or exceed my 170's cruise speed, and do it with a lower fuel burn. Estimated build cost would be around $50k.

What they can't do however is haul the family. No kids yet, but it's on the distant horizon and could be reality by the time I finish the build. Enter the 4-place kits like the Bearhawk and the Dream Tundra. Cost more to complete ($80-100k), larger and thirstier engines add to the operational cost, and the engine selection is the same old stagnant technology large displacement boxer offerings from Continental and Lycoming. No electronic fuel injection or ignition to the best of my knowledge. Right?

Plus, the Tundra is nearly a Skywagon class machine. It weighs over 100 lbs more than my 170 did with not much gain in cruise.

Some will make the argument that a C-180 could be had for much less than it costs to build a Tundra. Well, it wouldn't be new, and it would be certified. Dealbreaker.

It seems like there is nothing in between. Does the 3rd passenger pretty much require an extra 80 horsepower? Is it the absence of a good 150 hp engine for the Experimental market, O-320 notwithstanding? I used my 170 like a 2-place aircraft with a large cargo area, but my wife-to-be told me last night that she was always annoyed that we couldn't bring more people. Even in a Skywagon class machine, hauling human meat is a tall order, especially into mountains. Should I just accept that the cost to get into that realm is too great?

I need 2 airplanes.

PS: I promise to have BCP 2.0 finished before starting a kit.

Buy a Maule



















BWAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHa

Z
Teach the sweetie to fly and race her to see who can complete their $50k kit first.
CC

Buy a Maule

Matt your a genius!


Zane,
I have a friend building a Murphy Rebel with 160 hp. He has been pretty busy flying Chinook helicopters in Afghanistan for the Oregon Army National Guard so his project is on hold.
With a set 26s it will be an awesome bushplane.

James
Spokane

On Barnstormers there is a disassembled and engineless, unwrecked 1950 Piper Pacer for about 5 grand. Buy it. Restore it and turn it into a great bush plane while you're at it. Stick the 0-320 on the front (they don't break or wear out and don't burn much fuel). For 30-40 grand and less work than a kit you will have a great 2+2 bush plane.

If your looking at a KF 7 I would look real hard at the airdale too.

I am in the same boat, I love my little Avid for about 90% of my flying but will one day rebuild my pacer for those few trips that I need to haul more peeps or more cargo. My plan is to take a picture of a pile of tubes, then do the stretch myself on the pacer and mod the crap out of it, call it my own design and register it experimental.

For 2 people, the Rans S7 is hard to beat as the tandem seating gives you more elbow room. The argument against that is if 90% of your flying is you and your sweety, then side by side has many added benefits . The airdale and a Jabaru would fit your bill pretty well as it has a pretty damn big cargo area behind the seat and lots of shoulder room to boot. The jabaru can be fitted with EFI and electronic ignition as well.

Tadpole and I both had a chance to fly a Bearhawk at OSH a couple years back. What an impressive 4 place kit plane. The controls were very responsive and stalls we pretty much nonexistent. It had no problem getting all three of us off the ground. I believe it had a 540 in it though. It is advertised as a true 4 place plane. If I was going to venture into building a plane again, the Bearhawk or 2-place Patrol would definitely be on my list.

james wrote:I have a friend building a Murphy Rebel with 160 hp.
With a set 26s it will be an awesome bushplane.

James, thanks for reminding me about the Rebel. That might be an option. Their overview page says a 3rd pax jumpseat option is available, which would be nice for a little one.

The other thing I am unresolved about is construction methods. I'm attracted to rag and tube as riveting seems like a pain in the yang, but I like the precision fit of the pre-cut monocoque kit components. Tundra for example is all CNC-cut and drilled. Those building them say the kit quality is excellent. How do the Murphys stack up?

Heres my 2cents Id take a backcountry supercubs PA12 kit and install a crosswindsSTOL engine mount and cowl on it. Money would decide the engine for now but there is lots of fun to be had with a mid time 0-320. If you can aford it get Steve at performance air in caldwell to build you a stomped up 0-360 for it and an MT prop of course. This is based on my experience with the PA14 and it being certified we were limited as to what we could do to the engine, even so it performes like you wouldent believe is faster than a cub has more room and better visibility, also the mpg are better than a cub with a 160hp.

Also a wag-aero 2+2(PA14 knockoff) with the same crosswinds short mount and a trim jackscrew conversion would be a hot setup and fits into your inbetween catigory but I like the center pilot seat of the twelve and it has the room for the wife and a kid plus gear.

We had much the same dilemma when we started the PA14 , 180 too big cub too small ,only we needed to be certified.A homebuilt 12 or 14 Is the answer for you I think.

The short mount is the trick on a 12 or 14 they dont handle like a cub without it, the aerodynamics are enough better than a cub to make a constant speed feasable as long as it is lite (MT) and there is a ton of aftermarket suport.
Ill try and post a pick of the 14 to help you dream.


Woohoo I actually made it work

Buy this Maule. Change it to experimental. I know how busy you are, how you going to build a plane? Then the kids pop out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Beautifu ... raft#v4-38

1976 M5-210C

Airframe Total Time-2556

Engine TTSMOH-623

Prop TTSMOH-711

Maule factory fuselage overhauled in 2004

Annual Due-March 2011

I know a few guys who have built rebels the kit is all predrilled and verry good the gear is weak in my opinion but hey it experimental build cromolly cub type gear. also they are all pull rivets wich is not ideal but easy to build, and there is lots of them out there and hav a good record.

As bushwagon said, we checked out the Bearhawk. I even bought plans, manuals, CDs, newsletters (still get them too). I do like that plane very much, but am not in the position to start a build yet....though I sort of did with the Stinson. We'll see if I actually start building the Bearhawk after the Stinson is flying.

I'm with ya Zane, I really like the experimental side of things too, and one day I know I'll build something for myself. I'm still keeping my eyes open to what else there is. I like that Murphy as well. At least with the Stinson as my first flying plane..eventually...I'll really get to see what my mission with a plane turns out to be and if I really need to be able to haul wife and kid(s).

Start charging us two cents a minute, Then buy a pilatus PC-12(I spend way to much time here,bad weather, no flying ugh.)

Wow ccurrie, awesome looking plane you have there.

Here is Rick's Wag Aero 2+2 (PA-14 knockoff) with 31" Alaskan Bushwheels based out of Kelly Airpark

I like the Murphy Moose.

But really, come on. You can't beat a Maule over all if you want a 4 place STOL. If you want an experimental take the wings off the Maule, do some other modes, put it back together and take it to experimental category. Greg Miller did it. You will be money ahead over building from scratch. You will be flying.

Building is for guys who have lots of spare time and love the build process.

RB

I have been kicking around a new project, along the same lines. I am looking for something experimental that i can use ski's and amphib floats on. It seems like the bearhawk models are the front runners, but it is tough to find many to pick from. I am too big (6'4" and 240) to fit in a supercub clone. I think the patrol would be a blast. I am lucky enough to have a plane crazy father, so have the good luck to have a champ and a C-180 available to fly. I want something in between the two, experimental, with new avionics.

I just finished a Vans RV8 kit in March, and for me, the building is just as fun as flying.

Thanks Bushwagon, It actually not mine but it was my Idea, I havent even got to fly it yet, the guy writing the cheques keeps taking it and leaving me with the cubs. Oh well all expense paid cub flying aint bad

Zane,

This does not check all of your boxes but it is interesting and gets pretty close on many of your wants.

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthrea ... super+chub

Joe

Zane,

Your always welcome in Elko, NV if you want to fly a O-540 Bearhawk. There are 3 other kits here, too including one about to fly with an LS1 although I don't recomend going that route; a few friends like to tinker with their engines more than fly.

At 19 squared it burns 9 gph, and cruises at 125mph TAS which is how I fly most cross country flights. I can drop even lower to stay with the Kitfoxes and S-7's which puts me in the 6.5 to 8 gph range or I can push it up to about 155 mph and 14 gph. An O-360 powered Bearhawk is also a great performer and packs more usefull load than the O-540 versions and of course is more economical to operate. Electronic ignitions and fuel injection are options for Experimentals with Lycomings or Continentals.

RobBurson wrote:...You will be flying.
Building is for guys who have lots of spare time and love the build process.

I do have a plane to fly in the meantime. Building is not mutually exclusive with flying at this point. And...I do love building.