Rhyppa wrote:Keith's point on wind is good. So many of these 2 person kit planes stay parked when the wind blows even moderately. A friend has a kitfox, a pup, and an avid, all three on floats in the summer. The only time he is comfortable flying is when its damn near glass calm on the lake. He recently bought a champ on floats and last summer I saw him out a whole lot more since he wasn't nearly as wind limited. He's now wanting to sell all 3 of the experimentals. So he's one that went from exp back to certified. Twas me building experimental, I would definitely go with a cub knock off since there is such a huge parts market out there, and the design has proven itself over the last 60 years. the -12 is a comfortable plane and average sized people can actually get in and out of them without greasing up first.

Funny, I routinely fly mine in 20+ MPH winds. On floats I love a good head wind cause I can jump in the air. I can tell you that in turbulence, I would rather be in my Avid than a cub. I have bruised the insided of my thights way to many time in a cub trying to keep the oily side down while flying through the mountains, the Avid is much more responsive to roll inputs and does not require near as much stick deflection. The only down side to being light is that with a 20+ MPH head wind, your not going anywhere fast, but then again, It is really no worse than a 65 HP J3.

Zane wrote:Let me state this one more time It's not about saving money. There's no price on freedom. Almost.

I do have a question for my LSA class flying brethren: courierguy, emflys, taildrgfun, newkid...

Would you guys trade your birds straight across for a good condition Skywagon or the like given the opportunity? I have a feeling the answer is No.

One more thing-- take note that this thread is in the Kitplanes and Homebuilding forum, not Types. Lots of opinions in here from people who haven't built and apparently aren't interested in building. Good points, just too rational. You guys are smart. I'm not looking to make sense.

How about a big HELL NO. Different planes for different missions. Would I like to have a skywagon sitting in a hangar next to my Avid, sure I would, but then again, I would love to have a lear sitting in there too so I could just jump in it and head to the bahamas when its -30 here but that aint gonna happen nor is it even remotely close to practical.

I have some time in PA18, PA12, PA22/20 etc as well as the good ole 152, 172, 180/185 and 210. Each plane has its strong and weak points, but none of them are close to the seat of the pants pure flying for fun put a grin on your face as the Avid is (or Kitfox for that matter I have a few hundered hours in those too).

I've seen more than one suggestion here to have one to fly while you're building the other. This sounds like good advice but I don't think it really is. I know a guy who was building an Avid Flyer, he actually made pretty good progress on it & was probably 90% done (with 90% left to go!) when he went in partners with a friend on a Pacer. Bad move-- all of his spare time was then spent flying, not building.
On the other hand....about 1-1/2 years is the shortest build time of anyone I know, that's a long time to go without flying. And most builders I've known take much longer. Maybe the best compromise is to buy one partially built, but with enough left to do so that you can tailor the features to your needs, and also that you can get the repairman certificate.
Regarding factory built > experimental, I understand that the FAA frowns on using parts (like a fuselage) from an existing registered certificated airplane & using them as the basis for an experimental. A friend of mine had the idea to take a PA-20 or 22 fuselage & build his own version of a Pacer, but unless he highly modified it (a la Bushmaster) he was told it would not be accepted as an amateur built. Now I can't see the difference between doing that and buying a newly- manufactured supercub fuselage & using that, but apparently there is. There is a points system for determining compliance with the 51% rule, but even if you pass muster there without counting the fuselage apparently it's still unacceptable.

dirtstrip wrote:
The two seater of my dreams was the Montaigne Mountain Goat STOL.
Specs and performance here. http://www.bushplanes.com/specification ... mance.html Unfortunately not in production yet.

IMHO do not hand any money over to Bill Montagne, and whatever you do definitely do not fly in or behind anything he builds until you have been physically present at a structural load test ! If you go to a load test, stand outside the test cell. If the load test is in an engine test cell, stand outside the county line.

I apologize for hijacking this thread. I have first-hand experience with this guy maneuvering for money, and I have second-hand knowledge of his workmanship having the potential to hurt somebody. If the forum admin. specifically allows it I will offer an explanation.

Zane wrote:Let me state this one more time It's not about saving money. There's no price on freedom. Almost.

I do have a question for my LSA class flying brethren: courierguy, emflys, taildrgfun, newkid...

Would you guys trade your birds straight across for a good condition Skywagon or the like given the opportunity? I have a feeling the answer is No.

One more thing-- take note that this thread is in the Kitplanes and Homebuilding forum, not Types. Lots of opinions in here from people who haven't built and apparently aren't interested in building. Good points, just too rational. You guys are smart. I'm not looking to make sense.

Not me, I enjoy flying out of my own property, which I can easily do now. And, I can do it so quietly, no one complains, and often don't even know.
43k is what mine cost (not counting Bushwheels, retractable wheel skis, Sirius Sat radio, you get the idea) I can always afford the fuel burn, and mine is the only like it, for better or worse! No annual inspection fees is hard to beat also.

EZFlap wrote:

dirtstrip wrote:
The two seater of my dreams was the Montaigne Mountain Goat STOL.
Specs and performance here. http://www.bushplanes.com/specification ... mance.html Unfortunately not in production yet.

IMHO do not hand any money over to Bill Montagne, and whatever you do definitely do not fly in or behind anything he builds until you have been physically present at a structural load test ! If you go to a load test, stand outside the test cell. If the load test is in an engine test cell, stand outside the county line.

I apologize for hijacking this thread. I have first-hand experience with this guy maneuvering for money, and I have second-hand knowledge of his workmanship having the potential to hurt somebody. If the forum admin. specifically allows it I will offer an explanation.

I never pursued the 2 place dream. My requirements were for a four place. In my posts to this topic I have been careful to recommend checking out company support, present customers and flying the plane, and not to fall for the company specs of a plane because in dream shopping thats where many start and thats all the farther I got with this one. Got to admit it is seductive in the numbers. Thanks for the Dangerous Undertow Warning. The waters looked good on the surface.

With regards to building a plane, I think most of us would agree that it is similar to other things in life in that people have different strengths and weaknesses, likes and dislikes. Some enjoy building, some do not; some are good at it others shouldn't get near one - you know who you are. I suspect the negative building comments are mostly from those who don't enjoy it so I'll offer a different perspective.

I flew spam cans for nearly 20 years and owned one for 10 before deciding to build. I built a Bearhawk in 3.5 years and it was a tremendous experience for me personally as well as the family. I did this while working full-time, raising a family (3 kids), etc. We worked on it in a two-car garage which is right off our kitchen and the whole family got involved. It was a fantastic learning experience for all of us; not just in the knowledge gained about systems such as electrical, brakes, fabric, sheet metal, avionics, engines, paint, upholstery, etc. but about us and what can be accomplished by doing a little everyday. Another big bonus was the friends we've made along the way. There isn't much I would trade those experiences for!

If you have the desire and the resources to start; get going, do something to advance it everyday, and the chances are very good you will complete the project and receive great satisfaction from it. Many have; 20% of the single-engine GA fleet are homebuilts!

Well said Blackrock.

I am new to the site but have been reading it forthe last year or so and it is very entertaining and imformative. When this subject came up just could not set on the fence anymore. I am building at this time and it has beenever bit as enjoyable as I though it would be. I did have to sell my last plane to be able to aford this kit, I am building a Highlander with a Jabaru 3300 I allways wanted to build a plane, and I have to say go for it. Hope to be in the air this spring, god willing and the damn river doesn't come up again. Good luck inwhat ever way you go.

Welcome to the site foxred, we're glad you signed up.

Please post more about your build and pictures if possible. Why did you pick the highlander?

Doin the same thing. Highlander with the Jabiru 3300. Should be flying late spring, early summer. Just hung the engine yesterday...

I want to build a plane someday but I also want to have one to fly while I do it. I bought a set of plans for a Ragwing Storch. You can build it as a tandem or side by side. I'll probably make it a side by side. I want to modify it to make it a little larger and use a VW TDI engine, Smart car diesel or if I could get one, a Subaru Diesel Boxer engine.

I want to use Honeycomb Laminate instead of plywood because it is about ten times stronger and weighs a third of plywood the same thickness and it will never rot. If I can ever afford a Zenith Aircraft, that project will probably never happen but still sounds like fun building.

emflys wrote:Well said Blackrock.

X2!

Sorry Zane.... I gotta talk about the kids. Been there done that. Also spent 20 yrs. as a teacher, so have seen a few kids come and go. They won't like planes like you do... they grow up around them, then decide they can take it or leave it. So, get a two place.... get a babysitter. Go have fun.
Don't let your wife see this post. Just pick out the best economical two place you can build. Tell the FAA to go kiss somebody else's butt... and have a blast. Saves gas too... since you will spend the balance on diapers. Cheers,

Zane,

I would have to agree with Flightlogic....I always wanted to post it, but just didn't know a good way to do it. I am a relatively newly married husband and father of two. My wife has said she wants to learn to fly, but seems to enjoy talking girl-talk with her friends, enjoying a cool drink while watching me do landings, or playing in the pool with the kids while I'm out burning gas and accumulating bugs on the windshield. My son loves planes and flying. My daughter is not interested.

After the honeymoon, life will change. If there are any jr or jr miss coming along, then more changes. Some guys fly with their family all the time, though I think it is rare. There's no guarantee your situation will be the same.

I'm having a new Ridge Runner built for me, and it should be finished by May. Among other features, it will have removable flight controls at the back seat, just in case they are needed. But overall, it will be a custom build according to my own mission parameters, not because I have a family of four.

As for the wife and kids, mine seem to be most interested in flying only if it saves them time. My parents have a lake cabin about a 2 1/2 hour drive away, or a 45-50 minute flight in the 180. As for local flying/burning gas, my wife and 8 yr old daughter are not interested most times. My 6 year old son like to go, but maybe only 30-50% of the time.

I spend lots of time in the RV8 or the champ solo, or with other friends, but that is fine with me. It is a nice wind down at the end of the day that way.

I still say experimental!!

I went to Oshkoshin 09 to look at LSA's. I had bypass surgery got medical waver and decided I didn't want to go through that hassel ever year hopeing you could pass, so I am a sport pilot now. My first choice when I started looking was the S7 Courier , though I wanted tandan seating, then I saw the Highlander side beside seating, and wow look at all that bagage space saying latse go camping or what ever tripes your trigger. I taked to the just guys and who were great guys that answered all my questions didn't get tired af me setting in the plane airplane noises and the rest is history.

has this one been talked about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGIJVdw16NE

patrol guy wrote:has this one been talked about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGIJVdw16NE

I has been mentioned and I cam curious to know more about it, like if I can get one with out the iPad. I looks like you can... I am looking for an LSA cub and this is $20,000 less than a Legend Cub and the Carbon Cub. I still love the open cowl of the Legend Cub...

Zane I just noticed your question. I Wouldn't trade my Highlander for a 180 or 185. They are faster and carry more but for me would be less fun. My plane is a lot less expensive to own and fly. Any certificated plane would be too confining for me. I like to experiment without spending a fortune. For example I just tried some things with my flaps that lowered my stall/landing speed 5 mph. Spent about half a day and $5.00.

Steve