Hello Folks,
I could use some ideas for my next aircraft.

TLDR: Are there any aircraft that have side by side seating (prefer seating for 3), has amazing visibility, every window opens (larger is better) and flies low and slow. So far, the best fit I’ve found is a Maule.

I’m a low time pilot (500 hours) and most of that has been earned flying a 1947 Piper PA-12 over the last 7 years. My plane was completely restored in 1999 and it’s a joy to fly. No flaps, no mixture and it goes where you point it, straight and level. As long as I pay attention while landing, I can’t imagine any plane being easier to fly.

All of my flying is done along the Texas Gulf Coast (sea level) with occasional trips around the state to visit fly-ins. Basically I’m a fair-weather pilot, that luvs grass and unimproved strips. Where this story goes sideways is that I crave (?) the open cockpit experience (think Stearman, T-6, BT-13, etc) and I need to have 3 seats, with one next to me.

So, I’m looking for a new ride that has incredible visibility, lets me open all the windows, stick my elbow in the wind, has side by side seating and a seat behind me. All of this while flying low and slow, and visiting unimproved strips.

My PA-12 is a great aircraft but the back seat is a hole. I’m 6’2’ and 240lbs, which means that the passenger view is mostly my shoulders and head. While the left side window has never been closed, I sure would like something larger and an opening window on the right would be awesome. Let’s add in some additional visibility (in the doors, the ceiling, etc) and I think I’ll have my dream plane

So far, the only aircraft that fits my criteria is a Maule. Are there any other candidates? It seems that side by side seating with all the windows open and amazing visibility while flying slow and low is not a large market.

Thanks for tips, hints and suggestions
Lee

Grouser wrote:Hello Folks,
I could use some ideas for my next aircraft.

TLDR: Are there any aircraft that have side by side seating (prefer seating for 3), has amazing visibility, every window opens (larger is better) and flies low and slow. So far, the best fit I’ve found is a Maule.

I’m a low time pilot (500 hours) and most of that has been earned flying a 1947 Piper PA-12 over the last 7 years. My plane was completely restored in 1999 and it’s a joy to fly. No flaps, no mixture and it goes where you point it, straight and level. As long as I pay attention while landing, I can’t imagine any plane being easier to fly.

All of my flying is done along the Texas Gulf Coast (sea level) with occasional trips around the state to visit fly-ins. Basically I’m a fair-weather pilot, that luvs grass and unimproved strips. Where this story goes sideways is that I crave (?) the open cockpit experience (think Stearman, T-6, BT-13, etc) and I need to have 3 seats, with one next to me.

So, I’m looking for a new ride that has incredible visibility, lets me open all the windows, stick my elbow in the wind, has side by side seating and a seat behind me. All of this while flying low and slow, and visiting unimproved strips.

My PA-12 is a great aircraft but the back seat is a hole. I’m 6’2’ and 240lbs, which means that the passenger view is mostly my shoulders and head. While the left side window has never been closed, I sure would like something larger and an opening window on the right would be awesome. Let’s add in some additional visibility (in the doors, the ceiling, etc) and I think I’ll have my dream plane

So far, the only aircraft that fits my criteria is a Maule. Are there any other candidates? It seems that side by side seating with all the windows open and amazing visibility while flying slow and low is not a large market.

Thanks for tips, hints and suggestions
Lee

170

In all the time I have in Maules which is only about a hundred hours, being great in the visibility department is not something I have discovered,
Not bad but not great.

Kurt

Bagarre wrote:

Grouser wrote:Hello Folks,
I could use some ideas for my next aircraft.

TLDR: Are there any aircraft that have side by side seating (prefer seating for 3), has amazing visibility, every window opens (larger is better) and flies low and slow. So far, the best fit I’ve found is a Maule.

I’m a low time pilot (500 hours) and most of that has been earned flying a 1947 Piper PA-12 over the last 7 years. My plane was completely restored in 1999 and it’s a joy to fly. No flaps, no mixture and it goes where you point it, straight and level. As long as I pay attention while landing, I can’t imagine any plane being easier to fly.

All of my flying is done along the Texas Gulf Coast (sea level) with occasional trips around the state to visit fly-ins. Basically I’m a fair-weather pilot, that luvs grass and unimproved strips. Where this story goes sideways is that I crave (?) the open cockpit experience (think Stearman, T-6, BT-13, etc) and I need to have 3 seats, with one next to me.

So, I’m looking for a new ride that has incredible visibility, lets me open all the windows, stick my elbow in the wind, has side by side seating and a seat behind me. All of this while flying low and slow, and visiting unimproved strips.

My PA-12 is a great aircraft but the back seat is a hole. I’m 6’2’ and 240lbs, which means that the passenger view is mostly my shoulders and head. While the left side window has never been closed, I sure would like something larger and an opening window on the right would be awesome. Let’s add in some additional visibility (in the doors, the ceiling, etc) and I think I’ll have my dream plane

So far, the only aircraft that fits my criteria is a Maule. Are there any other candidates? It seems that side by side seating with all the windows open and amazing visibility while flying slow and low is not a large market.

Thanks for tips, hints and suggestions
Lee

170

I was going to say the same thing.

I'm definitely partial but I think you're on the right path. I agree that visibility above you is limited by the wings especially at your height. That said the skylight or super skylight opens up the view above at least during turns. Find one with the Patrol/Observer doors and windows and it doesn't get much better of a view below the wings. I love flying with both front windows open. I've also flown with each door removed combo possible. Either front door removed, one or both of the rear and baggage doors removed.

Untitled by gdflys1gregflys, on Flickr

Untitled by gdflys1gregflys, on Flickr

Untitled by gdflys1gregflys, on Flickr

Thanks for the info. Just did a quick search about 170s and windows, it seems you can fly with it open. Removing the catch bolt in the latch allows the window to float in the slipstream(?) I assume that you can do this to both windows? I guess it slams shut when you land? I couldn't find anything about installing a skylight in a 170 and only a handful of references about patroller doors. So far, the patroller doors are rare and might be associated with floats. Still researching.

OTOH, the Maule is equipped (options?) with a skylight and can be fitted with patroller doors on both sides and observation windows (whatever that is??) Also, it appears that the windows open fully and are held up by a small lift strut. I don't know if that's an option or when it became available. So much to learn

Thanks

I modified my window latches in my old 170. They had pull pins to let the window open completely in flight.

robw56 wrote:I modified my window latches in my old 170. They had pull pins to let the window open completely in flight.

G'dam aerobatic pilots....

Surprisingly the window is very well behaved - with the pin out it floats up to but does not touch the wing and floats down when you land. I only have a left hand side opening window which is a pain. Nice in the summer.

Robs 170 was really nice, but he went to the dark side

Bearhawk with a skylight and observer doors. Best in class for visibility and open / spacious cockpit.

The low instrument panel and large window surfaces are unbeatable, unless there's something out there which I've not seen yet.

Yes I am biased, but I can personally confirm that none of the aircraft mentioned so far are comparable.

At 6'2" is anything going to have great visibility? Every high wing airplane I've sat in puts my head up in the wing root requiring me to duck to see out the sides. It sucks, I hate it, it literally gave me neck pain and the OP is an inch taller. I built my Bearhawk with this specifically in mind so my seats are a smidge lower, the seat is fabric so my butt can sit slightly below the seat frame and the foam is as thin as comfortably possible. This gave me just enough to get my head out of the wing root. With a skylight, observer doors and large rear windows my Bearhawk is about as fishbowl like as possible in a high wing aircraft.

Hammer wrote:

robw56 wrote:I modified my window latches in my old 170. They had pull pins to let the window open completely in flight.

G'dam aerobatic pilots....

Got any pictures of the modification you made?

I just had pins like these I could pull to separate both parts of the window latch.

A Fairchild 24 has roll down windows and four seats. The rear seat occupants won’t have a fabulous view, but how often will you fill all the seats? F24s come up for sale on Barnstormers periodically and seem to be selling in the $50k - 65k range.

Hammer wrote:

robw56 wrote:I modified my window latches in my old 170. They had pull pins to let the window open completely in flight.

G'dam aerobatic pilots....

Got any pictures of the modification you made?

Grouser wrote:Hello Folks,
I could use some ideas for my next aircraft.

TLDR: Are there any aircraft that have side by side seating (prefer seating for 3), has amazing visibility, every window opens (larger is better) and flies low and slow. So far, the best fit I’ve found is a Maule.

I’m a low time pilot (500 hours) and most of that has been earned flying a 1947 Piper PA-12 over the last 7 years. My plane was completely restored in 1999 and it’s a joy to fly. No flaps, no mixture and it goes where you point it, straight and level. As long as I pay attention while landing, I can’t imagine any plane being easier to fly.

All of my flying is done along the Texas Gulf Coast (sea level) with occasional trips around the state to visit fly-ins. Basically I’m a fair-weather pilot, that luvs grass and unimproved strips. Where this story goes sideways is that I crave (?) the open cockpit experience (think Stearman, T-6, BT-13, etc) and I need to have 3 seats, with one next to me.

So, I’m looking for a new ride that has incredible visibility, lets me open all the windows, stick my elbow in the wind, has side by side seating and a seat behind me. All of this while flying low and slow, and visiting unimproved strips.

My PA-12 is a great aircraft but the back seat is a hole. I’m 6’2’ and 240lbs, which means that the passenger view is mostly my shoulders and head. While the left side window has never been closed, I sure would like something larger and an opening window on the right would be awesome. Let’s add in some additional visibility (in the doors, the ceiling, etc) and I think I’ll have my dream plane

So far, the only aircraft that fits my criteria is a Maule. Are there any other candidates? It seems that side by side seating with all the windows open and amazing visibility while flying slow and low is not a large market.

Thanks for tips, hints and suggestions
Lee

Whatcha need is an OH-58 helicopter, where you can pull all four doors off. Seating for 4, and STOL performance that is pretty incredible (0 foot takeoff and landing up to about 8000' DA).

Sorry corefile, I sold the plane 3 years ago (then it was crushed by a hangar collapse).

Thanks for the replies.

The Cessna 170 is an amazing aircraft, but it's not gonna have the "greenhouse" view I'm looking for. The 170's relative, the L-19 Bird Dog, has outstanding views, but no side by side seating. No joy there.

I forgot about the Fairchild F24. I remember seeing several at Oshkosh and their ramp appeal is way up there. A very cool plane, but there are maybe 5 for sale, one of those in Europe and all of them less than pristine. I already have a 70+ year old plane, I'd like to get something made in this decade

A helicopter is not going to work at all, though it does fit the mission!

Now the BearHawk . . . That's an interesting aircraft. I'm not opposed to building (read that as assembling) a plane, but I really don't want to fabricate sheet metal and cover my garage with aluminum chips. If it can be assembled (similar to a RV-12) then that might work. I'm going to call the factory tomorrow and get some info.

Lastly, I called Maule Air and had a nice informative conversation with Brent. So far, the MX-7 checks most of the boxes. The research continues.

Thanks,
Lee

I installed 4" blister windows on my 170, they are fantastic and you can get 6' deep ones as well

Mapleflt wrote:I installed 4" blister windows on my 170, they are fantastic and you can get 6' deep ones as well

I'll offer a different opinion on bubble windows. With the bubble windows you can't open them all the way up and let them float on the wing. Also, I'm to tall in the torso so I can't get my head into them to look down anyways. Shoulder room is nice, but I'm slim. Personally, I'd not spend the money on them. YMMV, as clearly they work good for some people.