Hi all,

First post here. Looking at upgrading to a 170a or 170b from my current 150L.

There's two specific aircraft I'm looking at.

First...
1949 Cessna 170a
Fresh overhaul zero time engine O300
4000 TT
New prop
New radio
Paint 7/10
Interior 4/10
No corrosion

1955 Cessna 170b
1300 SMOH 0300. Overhaul was 36 years ago
140 STOH
New prop
Old radio
Paint 9/10
Interior 7/10
180 gear
Airframe primed to prevent corrosion
No corrosion

There are very few 170s for sale in Canada, and I'm not sure which aircraft will better suit my needs or is a better buy.

The A model is appealing because of the new engine, radio, and prop. However, it has no dihedral in the wings, isn't rigged for floats (if I decide to do so down the road), interior is crap, and paint is ugly IMO.

The B model has great paint and interior, rigged for floats, and has the better handling characteristics of the B over the A. However, I'll have to overhaul the motor in the next 3 years or so. Also very old radio.

The B is $7K cheaper than the A.

Thoughts?

They’re probably worth about the same. One is a lowered price to account for not being a B, and not as pretty. The other has A lower price due to engine time.

A replacement com radio won’t cost much. I’d buy the pretty one with the corrosion proofing, buy a radio if the old one gives me trouble, and deal with the engine overhaul when it becomes necessary. The engine is just a consumable in either airplane. The airframe is for keeps. You’ll like the better flaps on the B.

Pinecone wrote:They’re probably worth about the same. One is a lowered price to account for not being a B, and not as pretty. The other has A lower price due to engine time.

A replacement com radio won’t cost much. I’d buy the pretty one with the corrosion proofing, buy a radio if the old one gives me trouble, and deal with the engine overhaul when it becomes necessary. The engine is just a consumable in either airplane. The airframe is for keeps. You’ll like the better flaps on the B.

Appreciate it.

This is what I'm leaning towards as well. However, makes me nervous that the B could become $35K more expensive immediately if the engine craps out...very long calendar time since overhaul. I suppose that's a risk with any plane though.

Owned a '53 170B, it was a good bird. Flown a few others, including a '55. The nice thing about the 55-56 B's is the improved tailwheel steering due to the way the cables are routed out some fairings on the side of the tailcone.

Better heater on 53 and later B.

The dihedral does make for a more stable airplane directionally. The A models require some heavy feet to counter the adverse yaw, but you would get used to it quick.

There are many other small distinctions between A and B models.

As for engine times...an often-flown well cared for engine will go to 2400 hrs and beyond. Someone here once wisely said they like to buy airplanes with runout engines because it's a known quantity. You take the discount and the engine health is out of the equation. Just plan to overhaul. Requires a realistic seller.

The 170B has a few features that depending on the flying you are intending are desirable.

The one I that your posting brings to my mind is float operations. You mentioned that the 170A doesn't have a float kit but the 170B does. If a float kit is required for your intentions its a pricy bit of extra work, $10-15K CDN to have installed. Further to that if you are intending float operations the fowler style flaps on the 170B will serve you better then the 170A flaps.

The BIG bonus with either model is immediate membership in The Holy Order of Round Tails & Knights of the Round Tails.

Would the B be worth 28K more with a fresh overhaul? Prob not. Personally, I prefer a run out engine, as all overhauls are not equal. After going through the engine, I would know how and what’s been done. IMO, the 34 yo engine needs an IRAN anyway, which bare bones would run about $7K. For potential resale, if you’ve done that, you’d might as well do cylinders, crank, carb and cam, and call it a field overhaul. I suspect you could get it done for well under $35K.

For discussion reference what are the "asking prices" for each airframe ?

Who zero timed the A engine and when? How much flying on the B in the last few years?

I would buy the B, I prefer the flaps and I think they are a little more desirable. If it has been used regularly recently I think the engine is probably good for another 700 hrs or so. A mid time engine comes up for sale every so often. I bought mine with 900 hrs on an old overhaul and I am over TBO now and running strong. I think statistically a mid time engine is less likely to fail than a zero timed one? But you don’t know for sure.

I’m on Texada if you want to look at a B and get bored by my telling you how cool it is come and visit.

And if you think you want a 180hp buy it now - don’t plan to put the motor in later. Only a fool would do that:)

daedaluscan wrote:Who zero timed the A engine and when? How much flying on the B in the last few years?

I would buy the B, I prefer the flaps and I think they are a little more desirable. If it has been used regularly recently I think the engine is probably good for another 700 hrs or so. A mid time engine comes up for sale every so often. I bought mine with 900 hrs on an old overhaul and I am over TBO now and running strong. I think statistically a mid time engine is less likely to fail than a zero timed one? But you don’t know for sure.

I’m on Texada if you want to look at a B and get bored by my telling you how cool it is come and visit.

And if you think you want a 180hp buy it now - don’t plan to put the motor in later. Only a fool would do that:)

The A is having its engine overhauled by Progressive Air in the Okanagan. It hasn't flown in 8 years, but it's not a big deal since it will come with a fresh overhauled motor.

The B has been flown a bit, not a ton lately. About 15-20 hours per year. It has 6 new Millenium cylinders 140 hours ago in 2012. Compressions are all still high 70s. It's the 36 year old bottom end which worries me a bit?

A 170B with a float kit is gold these days, if its in your "snack bracket" and with newer Millennium jugs I'd be giving it very serious and likely snap it up.

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Mapleflt wrote:A 170B with a float kit is gold these days, if its in your "snack bracket" and with newer Millennium jugs I'd be giving it very serious and likely snap it up.

I should clarify—it doesn't have a float kit, but it is float compatible if I decide to go that route. The A model is not float compatible without spending more than the plane is worth to rig it.

So now I'm curious, what does "float compatible" mean if its not provisioned with a float kit ? Are you referring to the structural provision but minus the external fittings those being the pork chops and aft fuselage fittings ?

Mapleflt wrote:So now I'm curious, what does "float compatible" mean if its not provisioned with a float kit ? Are you referring to the structural provision but minus the external fittings ?

Correct. The B model was factory float plane, then had gear put on. It has the rear bulkhead and structural provisions, just not the float kit.

The A model has no structural provisions and was built as a land plane.

With the structural provisions done the 170B is the winner in my books, the external fittings are not that hard to locate if or when you want to move forward with float flying.

Can I ask how much the seller is looking to get for the B ?

Mapleflt wrote:With the structural provisions done the 170B is the winner in my books, the external fittings are not that hard to locate if or when you want to move forward with float flying.

Can I ask how much the seller is looking to get for the B ?

They both asking around 60K

Mapleflt wrote:With the structural provisions done the 170B is the winner in my books, the external fittings are not that hard to locate if or when you want to move forward with float flying.

Can I ask how much the seller is looking to get for the B ?

What he said. I think the factory float kit is rare.

My O-360 is at progressive now, I trust them.

Buy both and swap the motors. Its the zero timed that is pulling you that way and I understand.

Bottom ends have a reputation of being solid. I would cut a filter and buy the B if there is no metal.

It is hard to convey to US guys how few are for sale here, and with our $ where it is and COVID the US market is pretty much out for us now.

There is no such thing as "Float compatible". The B you're looking at has a factory float kit. That means the internal blocks are there in the back, AND the airplane was corrosion proofed at the factory.....that's huge, whether you put it on floats or not in future. The factory really did a good job of corrosion proofing these factory seaplanes back in those days.

If you want to put the A on floats, you're going to have to hunt down some parts that are getting scarce, but the big deal is the corrosion proofing. Doing that after the fact isn't practical.

I owned a B for years, and kept it on floats much of that time. The B flaps make a difference in a land plane, but they really shine when you're on floats.

Finally, the instrument panel in that B looks pretty nice, certainly compared to the A panel you pictured.

I'd be talking to the gent with the B and see if you can maybe work him down some in price. If not, I'd still go for the B.

MTV

The radios don't matter, just buy the radio you want and put it in, unless you have something really fancy in mind any old radio will do the job. I'd go the B all the way. If you have any intention of float flying you want the B because it has the float kit. Even if you're not float flying the B has the corrosion proofing which you want. I personally wouldn't worry about the engine that much, if it's been flying 15-20 hrs per year like you say that's enough to keep the sitting blues away, you'll likely easily get several hundred more hours out of that engine which generally, for private pilots, will take you quite a few years down the road.

Fraser Farmer wrote:The radios don't matter, just buy the radio you want and put it in, unless you have something really fancy in mind any old radio will do the job. I'd go the B all the way. If you have any intention of float flying you want the B because it has the float kit. Even if you're not float flying the B has the corrosion proofing which you want. I personally wouldn't worry about the engine that much, if it's been flying 15-20 hrs per year like you say that's enough to keep the sitting blues away, you'll likely easily get several hundred more hours out of that engine which generally, for private pilots, will take you quite a few years down the road.

I plan on keeping the original radio as long as it works.

Sounds like everyone is recommending the B. I think I'll go this route. I fly about 200hrs/year, so the engine won't last me too long! As said above, it's a consumable and I suppose I should be more focused on the airframe.