I’ve looked at the technical differences between the 170A and B. But does anyone have any real world comparisons between the two? How much performance advantages do you get with the B?
My mission will be beach flying and back country strips around the Homer area with my wife and young son. No wild and crazy short stuff, no ridge top stuff, no skis, no floats.
Thanks everyone.

'53 B and later have much improved cabin heat systems.

Mid year '53 have "Lady Leg' landing gear which are commonly preferred over the early gear as they are stiffer. (you can change the gear though, including using 180 gear, which many prefer over both versions of the 170 gear)

There are other minor improvements but for those two reasons alone I would look for a 53 B or later.

You won't get much performance advantage with a B assuming a stock engine. It might land a little shorter with the big flaps but they both need more runway to take off than they do to land so you aren't going to be able to put it on a Cub strip anyway. Take off distance isn't significantly different enough to make me pick one over the other.

The reality is though, if you find a good A model, it would do what you want to do with less money spent up front. You'll just have bouncy gear, no defroster, and your passenger's feet will freeze.

Definitely go motor over A or B model. If you can find a 180hp A I would buy that over any O-300 B.

I have only flown one A, but really you can land them almost as short. Sportsman is a huge improvement also.

They seem to be flavor of the moment right now.

In regards to your mission statement I don't think it would really matter A or B.

If it were me, I'd buy the nicest one I could find for the budget and immediately put an 8042 prop on it so you don't get used to the faster cruise speed. I know there's folks that have gotten a Sportsman STOL cuff approved on the A model. That and the long prop would be a great little airplane.

If I'd put the 8042 on my Sedan before I sold it I could have probably saved about $80-100K and not bought my 180 lol.

So now I'm curious about the "improved" cabin heat systems and if it can be added to a pre-53 170B

Mapleflt wrote:So now I'm curious about the "improved" cabin heat systems and if it can be added to a pre-53 170B

Probably not easily. The early ones had a single heat outlet near the pilots left foot. The later models have four lower outlets, one at each seat, plus the defrost outlet on the top of the panel for the windscreen.

I know of one A model that has a modified manifold that spreads the heat across under the panel but I suspect it was done years ago and I don't know how it would get approved today.

kg wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:So now I'm curious about the "improved" cabin heat systems and if it can be added to a pre-53 170B

Probably not easily. The early ones had a single heat outlet near the pilots left foot. The later models have four lower outlets, one at each seat, plus the defrost outlet on the top of the panel for the windscreen.

I know of one A model that has a modified manifold that spreads the heat across under the panel but I suspect it was done years ago and I don't know how it would get approved today.

Ah man you had me hopeful for some better heat in my 52, nuts

It's not impossible or all that difficult to improve the earlier heat system.
This is a solution I came up with for our old '52. It used the stock 2" heat valve and required no cutting of the aircraft. Its just a duct across the firewall to help spread out the heat. Two piece made it easier to install with the control column in. It screws to the heat valve on the left in leu of the round deflector and is supported by the battery ground bolt on the right.

It made a huge difference. The '52 and prior system actually makes enough heat. It just doesnt spread it around well. The duct helps.

https://backcountrypilot.org/me/my-phot ... bumid=4554

nice work. that looks like a great improvement. Not structural either, could be done with a log entry?

I've had two 1955 B's, a 1949 A, and am currently flying a 1953 B with a Lycoming 180 and 80 inch Harzell. Lots of post on 170 Association site on how to modify the heat distribution system, not rocket science and probably can be done as a minor alteration as it isn't structural and doesn't effect cooling. They all fly about the same but the balance of the elevator when taxing makes it easier to hold the elevator full up on the B. The A and the 180 hp B require more trim changes in flight than a stock O-300 powered B which needs no trim change from cruise to landing. With the power set at 1700 rpm, each time you add flaps the airplane slows to the correct in trim approach speed for that flap setting. The A requires nose up trim and the 180 hp B with the 80 inch prop requires significant nose down trim and power for a full flap 65 mph IAS approach. With the 180 hp airplane takeoff and landing performance is better balanced with the B than it would be with an A though I have no experience with a 180 hp A. I prefer the heavier post mid 53 gear but the lighter gear works and may be easier on the airframe, the wings just rock more when taxing of uneven surfaces. I have no experience with a 170 A or B with 180 gear. Being an old, fat guy one problem I had with the A was that the flap and aileron cable run vertically on the center line of the aft wall of the baggage compartment making it impossible for me to crawl back into the tail cone for maintenance. I just got one of my young skinny mechanic buddies to crawl back there and do the work for me. This also means that there is no extended baggage kit available for an A model if that maters to you. I was flying the A when I bought my 180 hp but only bought it because I could buy the 180 hp B for significantly below market value so the seller could build a house. I really comes down to, are you willing to pay $45,000 for a B or would you be happy with a comparable A for $35,000. They are both great fun.

Tim

Great info everyone, thanks very much. For what I’m looking to do a 170A or B sounds like it will work just fine. Anyone selling one in AK? If so, send me a message. Thanks

Hey Scooper, I saw one for sale at Lake Hood not too long ago and I believe it's still on the market. I took a picture of the specification sheet w/ the contact info and a few photos of the plane. If you want, message me and I'll send them over you. Might be worth checking out.

Okay, I'll be the turd in the punchbowl, and argue that the B flaps are really, really better than the A model. Also, there are so many mods that are approved on the B but not the A.....and you ARE going to want to mod it. Extended baggage is huge, as an example.....especially winter flying in AK, where you're carrying wing and engine covers, survival gear, etc.

The B flaps make a difference in BOTH landing and takeoff, though theres more difference in landing. But, don't underestimate the effectiveness in takeoff of using those big flaps.

As to cabin heat: On my airplane (a 1952 B model with O-360), we modified the entire heat system. We removed the carburetor heat from the muffler, and installed a "Stack robber" from a mid year Cessna 172. These things provide a source of heat for the carburetor by a "box like" structure that clamps on one of the exhaust pipes coming out of a cylinder. The carb heat hose is connected to that heat source.

Then, you take the half of the muffler that was originally used for carb heat, and route that via a SCAT hose to one of Atlee Dodge's "Heat robbers" or firewall mounted heat manifolds, which are commonly used for rear seat heat on Super Cubs. That valve routes the heat from the muffler shroud through the firewall and into a manifold for heat distribution in the cabin, or dumps the heat over the side when heat isn't called for.

Now, you have TWO sources of heat. Plumb them both into a cross manifold as shown earlier in this thread, and you'll keep your toes warm.

We did all this as a field approval in Fairbanks on my airplane, which is now back in Fairbanks. It was really pretty simple. The heat robber that goes on the stack is a stock 172 part, but the Scout uses a similar item for carb heat as well. So, standard part, used on similar engine. The Atlee Dodge manifold is really straightforward and is used on a bunch of Super Cubs.

I flew that plane in some no shit cold weather and always had plenty of heat.

Get in touch with the guys at Chena Marina Air Service in Fairbanks if you're interested. They did the work, and the plane is parked in front of their place as well.

MTV

I will agree with MTV that the B flaps are better. I don't know if they are enough better for the $10,000 bump in price, that is up to the budget of the buyer. It is apparent that there are enough people that think a B is better than an A that traditionally the B will demand that $10,000 bump in selling price. I will say that I personally prefer the B. One thing about both the A and B stock o-300 powered 170 is that they will get off the ground pretty quick if you hold the tail just off the ground but take a while to accelerate to best climb speed before they begin to climb out of ground effect. You can feel the increase in climb when you hit the right speed, before that they just don't want to climb, and that is at 1000 to 1500 MSL. A stock motor B with flaps at 20* will get off the ground at best 100 feet shorter than an A with the flaps up but still will not climb until you accelerate, and keep in mind that at higher elevations or density altitudes the 170 performance data call for taking off with flaps up as using flaps will increase the takeoff distance. In that case the A and B have the same performance. It really comes down to you pay your money and make your choice.

Tim

Some good info in this thread!

I have the 170A and currently working through the process of converting from the O300 to the O360...I actually have the engine sitting right here. Anyone out there happen to have an engine mount for the O360 that will mount on the flat firewall of the 170A? Preferably an Avcon engine mount...

Cheers,

Anthony

I have an A model with the 8042 prop, 180 gear, horton stol (sportsman isn't approved on an A), VG's, GY 26" tires.

I've not had a bunch time in a B to compare, but in AK when light, I have no problem being off the ground in 300ft, and hitting 900-1000fpm.

The B is probably better, but my airplane works fine and for my use, the B isn't $10k better.

A model

nice 170!

B Model

akschu wrote:I have an A model with the 8042 prop, 180 gear, horton stol (sportsman isn't approved on an A), VG's, GY 26" tires.

I've not had a bunch time in a B to compare, but in AK when light, I have no problem being off the ground in 300ft, and hitting 900-1000fpm.

The B is probably better, but my airplane works fine and for my use, the B isn't $10k better.

I have pretty much this setup (sportsman) on a B and it is an awesome plane at sea level and light - all the airplane I want.

But I want this performance at higher DAs so am about to put a 180hp in it. Makes absolutely NO financial sense, but that is not the only motivation in my life:) If you want this then buy one converted, and I would not worry if it was an A or a B.