As my first post I figured I should start off with a bit of a gripe about my old 182a. I've put 40 hours on the unit and after factoring wind, load and other issues, I realize a 120 kt average groundspeed with this unit. I've looked in the old POH and it specifies 130-135 kt (converted from MPH) as it's happy place.

The engine is a strong 470-L with 1100 hrs, it's got wheel pants, the plane flies great, two blade McCauley prop, but I have noticed that the ailerons and flaps don't quite line up. Flaps are a half inch lower than the ailerons but line up to the fuselage OK. I know the plane was flipped 25 + years ago, rebuilt and put back together so maybe it wasn't put together properly. Or am I missing something? Just a shout out to those guys with speed issues to see if they have any tips.

Thanks!

Welcome! I have a 58 Skylane, too. But don't do a lot of cross country. Mostly low and slow and not in a straight line.

When I did do some cross country. I really didn't spend too much time looking at ground speed. But, I have noticed on occasion with great excitement that I was doing 150+ mph at times (with a good tailwind).

Sounds like a rigging issue that Bill from the Vegas area can help you out with. I'm sure he'll chime in soon. Big guy, can't miss him

paulrick wrote:As my first post I figured I should start off with a bit of a gripe about my old 182a. I've put 40 hours on the unit and after factoring wind, load and other issues, I realize a 120 kt average groundspeed with this unit. I've looked in the old POH and it specifies 130-135 kt (converted from MPH) as it's happy place.

The engine is a strong 470-L with 1100 hrs, it's got wheel pants, the plane flies great, two blade McCauley prop, but I have noticed that the ailerons and flaps don't quite line up. Flaps are a half inch lower than the ailerons but line up to the fuselage OK. I know the plane was flipped 25 + years ago, rebuilt and put back together so maybe it wasn't put together properly. Or am I missing something? Just a shout out to those guys with speed issues to see if they have any tips.

Thanks!

POH is TRUE AIRSPEED --- Ground speed is a complete other subject ---- YES I rig Cessna airplanes to make book speed -I went to the class at Cessna Pilots Association and do 5-18 a year >from Cessna 120's to 210's.

No doubt re-rigging is in order. It made a several knot difference in my P172D.

Being out of rig doesn't necessarily mean that something bad happened to the airplane in its past, or that past repairs were inadequate. Cables stretch, hinges wear, etc. When I bought my airplane, she appeared to be "in rig". Early on, the engine catastrophically failed, but my landing in a field did no damage to the airframe whatsoever. But over several years of regularly flying her, the 2 things I noticed were that the ailerons and flaps were no longer lined up, and that the yokes were tilted slightly while flying straight and level. So at an annual, I had my IA re-rig her, and although it's a bit pricey (lots of labor time involved), the results were great. The airplane is more pleasant to fly and flies faster.

Cary

I picked up a very solid 4 kts by tweaking the rigging here and there per the Cessna Pilot Assoc document. I only made it through step 4 of the process (the rest is IA territory) before realizing the gains. I get between 2-4kts under book in my '62 now (130-132 kts TAS/GPS, no wheel pants). Before the changes, 128 kts was seldom attained even loaded aft. The biggest 'tell' for the improvements is that I was dog-walking before...with the ball centered @ constant heading, the wings were not at all level. Now, the problem is not gone, but the roll is very small.

I believe the older models (yours) might be a tad faster, and many models near mine go faster than me. After experiencing the rigging improvement, I'd take a good look at that. It took me about 2 full afternoons to make it through the first four sections, and I ended up making what I thought were relatively minor tweaks until the flight testing I was doing every couple of hours proved otherwise. In the end, the cost of working out the rest to get a even couple more knots didn't seem worth it...I was happy.

The biggest gains occurred from tweaking the trailing edge of the flaps.

Here is the note:
http://www.moonflight.org/Documents/rigging.pdf

Well, yours goes the same speed as my 1957 C182A. Depending on rigging cost, it might not be worth it for the small gains..
The beauty is, it won't settle into the trees like a Stinson!!!!

Cary wrote:No doubt re-rigging is in order. It made a several knot difference in my P172D.

Being out of rig doesn't necessarily mean that something bad happened to the airplane in its past, or that past repairs were inadequate. Cables stretch, hinges wear, etc. When I bought my airplane, she appeared to be "in rig". Early on, the engine catastrophically failed, but my landing in a field did no damage to the airframe whatsoever. But over several years of regularly flying her, the 2 things I noticed were that the ailerons and flaps were no longer lined up, and that the yokes were tilted slightly while flying straight and level. So at an annual, I had my IA re-rig her, and although it's a bit pricey (lots of labor time involved), the results were great. The airplane is more pleasant to fly and flies faster.

Cary

I find cable tension to be number reason aircraft don't make 'book speed' - or what the factory advertisises as there top speed . Narrow body (before 1962 -182) were /are about 5 miles True airspeed faster:-) .Cessna rigging takes day to day and half . CPA tech note 14 is 85-90 % of all of the rigging procudure . Aircraft turning or rolling is common and adds drag. Cessna was (is) all about speed and they opitumised the figures --- if they (Cessna,piper or ??) They would have added it at the
Factory .No flap gap seals for me no thanks. Aileron seals Ok ,no VG's either. Sportsman STOL kit for
Me.

Curious. What is your labor rate for a day? 182stol

Del Air tightened up my rigging on a C-170B I took to Porterville. Seems like I got there bout 10 am and left early afternoon. I didn't notice a lot of change in airspeed but I could take my hands off a lot more.

flightlogic wrote:Curious. What is your labor rate for a day? 182stol

Single engine 100 series Cessna up to 185 -$750 ,Cardinals 177 $850 , 200 series Cessna $950, retracts another $100 >172 RPG, 182 RPG ,210 €et. . Or add expenses from BVU to you +

You can probably get more out of your plane, my 57 182A gets book+4-5mph.
But remember that the "book" numbers are corrected numbers to standard day. So what you need to do is throw out the GPS and go fly old school with an E6b or CR computer, OAT, and altimeter. Once you have PA (set altimeter to 29.92) and temp, figure the TAS. Then figure DA and use that as the reference for book expectations.
It can be surprising that at 8500 DA can be well in excess of 10,000' in the summer.

This is a cheap way to make your 182 fly faster.

Wow you guys sure know your stuff. I'll have my AME look at the rigging during my 50 hour service next week and see if he can tweak it a bit. He's a 180 owner and knows the 182A inside and out. I don't mind the 120 kt speeds as it is still plenty fast and the plane is great in the climb with a full load. I think with some tweaking with the rigging it will at least fly like it is suppose to. The plane does favour a slight turn to the right so any adjustment will be useful.

Thanks again. It is very much appreciated.

Bill's comment about no flap gap seals: when I had flap gap seals installed, cruise increased about 4-5 knots. Others in the past have commented that flap gap seals reduce controllability in slow flight, but I didn't notice any loss of control at the time. Now that I make approaches even slower with the AOA indicator, I still don't see any controllability issues. Later model 206s have them factory installed, FWIW. I've thought about adding aileron gap seals, too; just haven't done it yet.

Cary

I concur Cary:
Flap gap seals, +4-5MPH, no difference in controllability, stalls clean and at 40MPH IAS (book), slow flight unchanged.

I agree with Bill about the flap gap seals.
I removed them and stall speed was reduced, and no sinking feeling of the plane coming from under me when slow approaches.
I dont care if it is 4 mph faster

My 1973 182 is not fast 130 to 135 mph IAS is the best I get for cruise speed.
But... stalls at 40mph power off IAS

maybe the widebodies are more prone to this?
Thoughts?

Thanks again for the comments. I was thinking about getting the flap gap seals installed but I will wait until I get more slow flight experience with this unit.

I believe a re-rigging is in order. I will talk to my AME this week when he does my 50 hr service and see when he can schedule it in. The fuel savings due to reduced drag will probably pay for it quickly as I fly this machine 20-30 hours a month.

Due to the 2650 gross that my 58 has, I will be adding wing extensions to bring it to 2950 when the engine gets overhauled in a year or two. It probably won't change the speed much in regards to cruise but I think with the wing extensions it will counteract a flap gap seal kit for slow speed operations. I'd like a 130 kt machine but I'm pretty happy with this old girl regardless.

Appreciate the words of wisdom.

Bill: Next time I go up I'll figure out the TAS on the E6-B and post it. Should be flying a couple hours tomorrow depending on weather. Thanks for the tip.

paulrick wrote:Thanks again for the comments. I was thinking about getting the flap gap seals installed but I will wait until I get more slow flight experience with this unit.

I believe a re-rigging is in order. I will talk to my AME this week when he does my 50 hr service and see when he can schedule it in. The fuel savings due to reduced drag will probably pay for it quickly as I fly this machine 20-30 hours a month.

Due to the 2650 gross that my 58 has, I will be adding wing extensions to bring it to 2950 when the engine gets overhauled in a year or two. It probably won't change the speed much in regards to cruise but I think with the wing extensions it will counteract a flap gap seal kit for slow speed operations. I'd like a 130 kt machine but I'm pretty happy with this old girl regardless.

Appreciate the words of wisdom.

The 182 is a utility machine very efficient for the fuel burn. If you want to go faster or have more useful load buy a 210 or 206. Reduction of DRAG means faster with same power . Count on $1000.00 per knot
For increased speed---more power is nice for take off but doesent do a whole lot to top end --does get off ground better . Speaking of takeoff and get of town the ~flap gap seals ? > kill 20% of your lift at takeoff ---longer ground roll and longer climb out. Flap gap seals ? Block the air from passing over the top of the flap it's shaped like a airfoil to give more LIFT ! . SPORTSMAN STOL will be better hands down better than any other modifaction period. If you object is speed reduce drag - for lift add more wing area or get a Sportsman STOL kit installed . Been there done that.

I had my 182 with Horton STOl kit and flap gap seals.
Changed it to a Sportsman STOL kit and removed the flap gap seals and its another plane.
I also fully recommend the Sportsman STOl kit.