Hey all I I've been lurking on this sit for a few weeks now and finally thought I'd get some opinions on prices. I'm looking at a 1973 182 on the west coast (I live in Seattle). It has 5300 hrs TT and 950 SMOH, It has a p-ponk conversion with 2000 TBO and the 3 blade prop, a garmin 530w, king HSI, king KX-155 nav/coms, new 406 elt, EI engine monitor, decent paint and decent interior. It does not have an autopilot. They are asking 85k for it.

The only potential downfall is in 1994 it had a bird strike and they had to pull a wing to replace some skin and a nose rib.....would this be a show stopper? How much would a 20 year old repair affect the price if at all? Or the re-sale price. What do you guys and gals think? Thanks in advance for the input.

The bird strike is a non issue if repaired and documented properly. The price seems high, likely because of the pponk mod. If you don't care about having the pponk, there are probably better deals out there. If you really want a pponk, this may be a great deal for you.

Depends on the person.... Most will say if the repair is done right, than it really doesn't matter, but its always a good leverage point to knock a few bucks off the asking. Might apply more with tail draggers since most of the older ones all have damage.

Seems like about the right place to start. The 530 and the pponk are worth a lot. It would have gone for 100k or more 10 years ago. I wish I had a pponk.

I'm totally ignorant here (I've got a talent for that sort of thing), but aren't some of the Pponks subject to that ECI & SAP AD? Would be worth researching.

Otherwise, I like the bird!

[EDIT: ... and I agree with the others, if the bird-strike was repaired properly, it's a negotiation point, but not a deal killer]

Man, thanks for the replies - these forums are sure a great resource. I really appreciate it!

Definitely check out the cylinders to see if they are affected by the recent AD's. My P-ponk 182 has 12 year old SAP cylinders with only 550 hours on them and I have to throw them in the garbage at the end of this year. I wouldn't worry about a bird strike if damage was correctly repaired.

Yeah that is something I will definitely be checking on for sure. Those were the ECI nickel cylinders correct? This one has superior millennium cylinders. Are those affected?

Thanks again for all the replies.

Yes, many of the Superior Millenniums are affected. Google AD 2014-05-29. My wife is not happy because this AD just pushed out her kitchen remodel that I keep promising her.

mtnaflyer wrote:Yeah that is something I will definitely be checking on for sure. Those were the ECI nickel cylinders correct? This one has superior millennium cylinders. Are those affected?

Thanks again for all the replies.

Many of the Superior cylinders are affected. You'll have to verify if/not impacted by the serial numbers and the casting marks.

IMO this is an AD that shouldn't be. It's not a real big issue to live with - You have to do a compression check every 50hrs and remove the cylinders after 12 years in service or recommended TBO. My Bo has them - I have another 6 years before I have to change them. By that time, I'll have to top the engine anyway.

Jim

How important is it for the Cessna Ageing Fleet SID to have been complied with?

To 66skylane and jaudette, folks like you are why I'm a member of this great forum. I checked in the engine logbooks and sure enough on April 25th these cylinders become paperweights. They are 13 years old. Thank you folks for pointing that out.

Now the question remains......the owners have no choice but to fix them (it appears in the AD that you can't even get a ferry flight permit after the 25th) and I'm pretty sure new cylinders do not drive the blue book value up on the plane and it is already right at the max value, if not over......so do they raise the price on me? I think if they do it's a deal killer, what is your opinions on this?

mtnaflyer wrote:To 66skylane and jaudette, folks like you are why I'm a member of this great forum. I checked in the engine logbooks and sure enough on April 25th these cylinders become paperweights. They are 13 years old. Thank you folks for pointing that out.

Now the question remains......the owners have no choice but to fix them (it appears in the AD that you can't even get a ferry flight permit after the 25th) and I'm pretty sure new cylinders do not drive the blue book value up on the plane and it is already right at the max value, if not over......so do they raise the price on me? I think if they do it's a deal killer, what is your opinions on this?

Mtnflyer: Thanks for that.

It will cost them at least $12,500 to top that engine (that cost should be borne by them!). A little fishy to me that they didn't mention the SAP AD because they should have been doing compression tests every 50 hours beyond 750 hours TIS on those per the AD. You shouldn't have to dig through logs to figure that out, and they had to know about the 25th!

Here's what I would do: I would pay their asking price as long as they top the engine at a reputable shop (in fact, I think you would be getting a great deal because the bottom on that engine is tough as nails!). With a fresh top you'll go well beyond TBO. If they want more money, walk...

Good deal, for sure.

Incidentally, I was over on Beech Talk and there was a shop that posted they had 300 of the SAP cylinders in stock when the AD was issued. That's the FAA forcing them to take a 300K write-off... Ouch.

Jim

jaudette wrote:

mtnaflyer wrote:Yeah that is something I will definitely be checking on for sure. Those were the ECI nickel cylinders correct? This one has superior millennium cylinders. Are those affected?

Thanks again for all the replies.

Many of the Superior cylinders are affected. You'll have to verify if/not impacted by the serial numbers and the casting marks.

IMO this is an AD that shouldn't be. It's not a real big issue to live with - You have to do a compression check every 50hrs and remove the cylinders after 12 years in service. My Bo has them - I have another 6 years before I have to change them. By that time, I'll have to top the engine anyway.

Jim

If your cylinders are already 12 years old it's a big issue to live with! Mine turn 12 this July so I'm getting hit with a $8000+ bill and with 2 kids and a stay at home wife it's definitely a touchy subject at the dinner table! The AD also doesn't allow you to re-install the affected cylinders so if you have to pull one for some reason you have to trash it. So keep your fingers crossed your jugs hold up another 6 years. The data I've read says the 12 year deadline is crap. I would figure if the 182P you are looking at has these cylinders you have some negotiating power.

66skylane wrote:

jaudette wrote:

mtnaflyer wrote:Yeah that is something I will definitely be checking on for sure. Those were the ECI nickel cylinders correct? This one has superior millennium cylinders. Are those affected?

Thanks again for all the replies.

Many of the Superior cylinders are affected. You'll have to verify if/not impacted by the serial numbers and the casting marks.

IMO this is an AD that shouldn't be. It's not a real big issue to live with - You have to do a compression check every 50hrs and remove the cylinders after 12 years in service. My Bo has them - I have another 6 years before I have to change them. By that time, I'll have to top the engine anyway.

Jim

If your cylinders are already 12 years old it's a big issue to live with! Mine turn 12 this July so I'm getting hit with a $8000+ bill and with 2 kids and a stay at home wife it's definitely a touchy subject at the dinner table! The AD also doesn't allow you to re-install the affected cylinders so if you have to pull one for some reason you have to trash it. So keep your fingers crossed your jugs hold up another 6 years. The data I've read says the 12 year deadline is crap. I would figure if the 182P you are looking at has these cylinders you have some negotiating power.

Yeah - If you already own the plane and an AD makes it a paperweight almost day one; It sucks for sure! I think this AD affects 8,000 engines - Thats $100,000,000 in repair (12.5K * 8K)... FAA: They're not happy until you're not happy...

My situation was a little different. I knew during my pre-buy that starting at 750hrs (my engine has 700hrs and the SAP jugs were put on in 2008) I was going to have to start complying with the AD. I priced the plane accordingly.

I called several reputable shops about the ECI and SAP cylinders... ALL of them indicated these are better jugs that the TCM/OEM jugs. They all had a similar thoughts that this AD's linage can be traced to a single, high volume operator out of Alaska. I think the truth is that SAP and ECI didn't have the $$ to defend against a machine like the FAA (SAP was in bankruptcy during/post the investigation and engineering research phase of the AD). None of the shops I called had ever seen a cracked SAP or ECI jug that was a preamble to the separation identified in the AD; the same cannot be said about TCM/OEM's - There are other reasons for cracked jugs that I won't bore you with.

In any event, I'm going to fly the plane and I'll top it when it needs to happen.

Jim

BTW: Sorry to hijack your thread...

I have a 1973 C182P with everything that this plane has that you are looking for. It has the same panel, it also has the stec 55x autopilot. I am getting ready to do the aspen efd in it. I think asking prices are inflated right now...ridiculously! I have a friend who just bought a P-35 bonanza with 300 smoh for 38,000....Thats not saying i dont think our 182 isnt worth 125K, but they just arent really....pponk garmin or not, why not go in there with 60,000 cash and carry 5,000 in your wallet. Play a hard bargain on the cylinder issue, we just did our pponk conversion with steve building the engine, and northwest air repair putting it in, new prop and all out the door was what 1960's 182's can be bought for right now...dont let that fool you though, i dont feel that putting that kind of money into it will net me the exact same cost if i were to sell it right now. How badly does he need to sell it? If i had to sell mine in 2 seconds i would list it in the 75-80 range, and i think it would sell very fast!

Go online and look at 182's for sale...i do this every single day, and the P models range in price from 35,000 to 125,000. The ones that are 125,000 have been on the market over a year, the ones that are priced appropriately are gone the day after they are listed, im emotionally attached to mine...it would take $200K cash to buy it!!!!!


You are making a good choice with a 182 especially the "P" model, that is when cessna really got it right with the 182 aside from going to wet wing tanks in the later model "Q" models that plane is the exact airframe rolling off the line today minus the lycoming and a few cosmetics. You can also get the STC to go up to 3110 gross weight same as the new ones...only gripe is that the nose landing lights really burn out fast i wish they were in the wings!

My specs:
1973 C182P 1988 ttsn
3110 upgross STC
Hartzell scimitar 150SNEW
PPONK balanced and ported polished 150SNEW by PPONK
GNS530
KX155
STEC 55x
GMA340
GTX330

I think his price is too high, because even after all the money spent lately on mine, i dont think in my opinion ours is worth 85K

only gripe is that the nose landing lights really burn out fast i wish they were in the wings!

Suggestion: replace them with HIDs or LEDs. They'll last longer than you will! Seriously, with a 5000 hour bulb life, and you don't run them all the time, they'll last one heckuva long time, plus give you much, much better light.

I have HIDs on my P172D. They're now 9 years old. Granted, they are in the wing, but if I had a choice, I'd rather that they were in the cowl, or alternatively that I had another set in the right wing. Even with a broader beam in the taxi light, there's still a lot of darkness off to the right side.

Cary

mtnaflyer,
Bringing this thread back up since I have an interest in it also, especially in regards to the cylinder AD.
I sent you a PM on a 1974 182P with 1323TT that is for sale here in MN. No advertised but the owner says he wants to sell it to fund other ventures.

If you are talking about the 1974 Skylane N7474S, i have a very interesting history with that plane...and i live in California!

It was based in my hometown of Chowchilla Ca. My cropduster buddy told me the guy who owned it needed to sell for medical reasons. At the time it was N707FB this was in 2011.

I met with the owner and looked at the plane, which hadnt flown since 2000ish. This thing was a time capsule! It had 1045hr on the tach, and looked factory fresh! I was going to buy it, but i knew it would need some major attention. I offered to buy the plane from the owner in cash and he did not accept.

Fast forward about 3 months later after i had gotten my 182, im fueling up in Fresno and met the fellow that bought the plane and was flying it back to the midwest.

Looks like he ended up putting a fair ammount of money into the plane, i have seen it in person granted it was 3 years ago, but if you dont mind not having the latest and greatest in the panel, i would say N7474S rates as probably the absolute finest example of a barn find cessna 182 that i have ever seen...nicer than mine! It has the best factory original paint and interior i have ever laid my eyes on...it is absolutely perfect.

If you want more pictures of the plane, i dont know how the current seller feels about it, but i have a ton of them on my computer from when i looked at it. I couldnt believe how pristine this thing was, most planes sitting in hangers out here in Cen Cal usually burn up from the paint down because it gets so hot in the hangers. This plane was IMMACULATE!!


Mike