I guess that I have been without a clue regarding the cost of compliance with the faa 2020 ads-b requirement. From what I've been able to ascertain it is going to cost four aviation monetary units. The cost is for a basic installation. Has any come up with less expensive ways to comply.
Ron

Don't fly in controlled airspace.

What he ^^^^^ said!!! I'm going to try and do the same as Barnstormer. Heck, it has been decades since I have even flown into a controled airport! I really should do it someday, just so I can remember why I quit.

Remember that ADS-B mandate covers any place a mode-c is required today- That's 30 miles from any class B airport and almost impossible to avoid on the whole East (and West) coast.

From what I can tell, $4k is about the going rate. The Stratus ESG replaces your transponder as well and runs $3k for the unit.
You might get a few bucks from your old transponder to offset that or at least buy your mechanic lunch with

Even if you have WAAS in the plane already, I dont think you can get cheaper than $3k but you might save money in the installation (not needing to run another antenna)

But think of all the incredible value you don't get from installing ADS-B OUT

Bagarre wrote:Remember that ADS-B mandate covers any place a mode-c is required today- That's 30 miles from any class B airport and almost impossible to avoid on the whole East (and West) coast.

It won't be that hard to avoid (unless you live under a mode c viel). That still leaves A LOT of flying you can do, out here on the west coast anyways. There's only 1 mode c viel in Washington, none in Oregon, and 3 in California. Class C airspace is easy enough to avoid (why would you want to go there). Not being able to fly above 10k for better winds or fuel efficiency when going cross country is the part that bothers me the most. I'm not in a rush to upgrade to ADS-B. It'll be easy enough to avoid that airspace, for me anyways.

I don't think I make one flight in ten that isn't above 10k msl, so I guess I get to pay...

Hard to see anyone in the western US being able to go cross country efficiently without going above 10k.

No one said this flying thing would be cheap...

Hammer wrote:I don't think I make one flight in ten that isn't above 10k msl, so I guess I get to pay...

Hard to see anyone in the western US being able to go cross country efficiently without going above 10k.

No one said this flying thing would be cheap...

Without ADS/B or, like me, operating light sport, you can operate above 10000 feet plenty in the west....as long as you're within 2500 feet of terrain. I for one have no interest in being at nosebleed altitudes except to clear terrain.

Otherwise, I'd much rather be down at a few hundred feet where I can actually see things on the ground. Flight at altitude is boring as hell to me.

Finally, to amend Barnstormer's suggestion to stay out of "controlled" airspace, bear in mind that you CAN fly in a HUGE percentage of controlled airspace, even after the ADS/B mandate kicks in......Class E and D are both open to us without transponders or ADS/B.

I flew most of the way from OSH to Bozeman last summer without getting over 1500 ago. And I've been around the Idaho and MT backcountry without being very high

To each his or her own.

MTV

I thought the conversation was around affordable ADS-B solutions for those of us that must have it in order to fly.
I didn't think the conversation was around all the places that people can move to in order to avoid ADS-B.

Bagarre wrote:I thought the conversation was around affordable ADS-B solutions for those of us that must have it in order to fly.
I didn't think the conversation was around all the places that people can move to in order to avoid ADS-B.

Thread drift.....but the OP didn't state that he bases his aircraft within or needs to fly to class B or C airspace.

There is SOOO much misinformation out there (example: Fling Magazines editor opined that you could not fly in ANY "controlled airspace" a month ago. When I sent him a message about same, he came back stating that you cannot legally fly into class D airspace without a transponder, or ADS/B after 2020.

With this kind of misinformation out there about the ADS/B mandate, I for one feel it's essential to put accurate information about ADS/B out there any time ADS/B is discussed.

If that offends you, skip my posts. .

MTV

FWIW... I went with the GTX345 for compliance. The installation was a HUGE PIA. The traffic is pretty damn cool, but I think there is just WAY too much BS to look at rather than just enjoy the view. "TRAFFIC, 3 O'CLOCK" "SHIT, AIRPLANE 6000' ABOVE YOU!!!!" "TRAFFIC!" "TRAFFIC!!!!" And don't get me started about the AHRS on the iPad and 796. Bluetooth doesn't connect automatically and has to be hooked up every time I start up.... I guess it's nice if/when I need it, but is it really needed??? An the free WX.... That totally sucks compared to the XM.

In retrospect, I should have just done the ES upgrade to my GTX330 and kept XM. (I will be re-subscribing to XM)

I think non-ADSB is allowed over 10,000' depending on the height of the terrain.

I don't know about the Class C situation. There is no Mode C veil around Class C.

mtv wrote:

Bagarre wrote:I thought the conversation was around affordable ADS-B solutions for those of us that must have it in order to fly.
I didn't think the conversation was around all the places that people can move to in order to avoid ADS-B.

Thread drift.....but the OP didn't state that he bases his aircraft within or needs to fly to class B or C airspace.

There is SOOO much misinformation out there (example: Fling Magazines editor opined that you could not fly in ANY "controlled airspace" a month ago. When I sent him a message about same, he came back stating that you cannot legally fly into class D airspace without a transponder, or ADS/B after 2020.

With this kind of misinformation out there about the ADS/B mandate, I for one feel it's essential to put accurate information about ADS/B out there any time ADS/B is discussed.

If that offends you, skip my posts. .

MTV

"From what I've been able to ascertain it is going to cost four aviation monetary units. The cost is for a basic installation. Has any come up with less expensive ways to comply."

I misread that to mean that he was asking about affordable ways to comply with the ADS-B mandate.

Thread drift (I guesss), but pertinent--
the "when" requirements for ADS-B are spelled out in FAR 91.225

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.225

"(d) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the following airspace unless the aircraft has equipment installed that meets the requirements in paragraph (b) of this section:

(1) Class B and Class C airspace areas;

(2) Except as provided for in paragraph (e) of this section, within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 to this part from the surface upward to 10,000 feet MSL;

(3) Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL;

(4) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, Class E airspace within the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface; and

(5) Class E airspace at and above 3,000 feet MSL over the Gulf of Mexico from the coastline of the United States out to 12 nautical miles.

I was trying to ascertain whether a less costly way to comply was available. I live and keep my plane on the edge of the Seattle class b 30 mile veil. It just seems that earlier there was a lot of talk about keeping the cost down. The faa even changed the rule to allow your current transponder to be used. If you have an experimental you pay about half of what certified owners pay for the same equipment. I thought maybe a less expensive way to comply could or should exist.
Ron

Moss farmer wrote:I was trying to ascertain whether a less costly way to comply was available. I live and keep my plane on the edge of the Seattle class b 30 mile veil. It just seems that earlier there was a lot of talk about keeping the cost down. The faa even changed the rule to allow your current transponder to be used. If you have an experimental you pay about half of what certified owners pay for the same equipment. I thought maybe a less expensive way to comply could or should exist.
Ron

The FAA is offering a rebate for those that were interested in being equipped before the required date. They said the rebate would be available starting September 19,2016 and running for one year, or until the 20,000 rebates have been spoken for.

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/

The rebate is $500. That would help offset the cost and maybe get some of the fence sitters in the ring.

As MTV said there is a lot of misinformation out there regarding where ADS-B will be required.

For Class D it's not just as transponders are not today. You should of course notify the tower on your initial contact that you are Negative Transponder if you don't have one in case the same controllers are also working an airport that does.

If you want to fly over Class C you will need an ADS-B out system, under the outer ring you don't, just like you don't need a transponder now.


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Moss farmer wrote: I was trying to ascertain whether a less costly way to comply was available. I live and keep my plane on the edge of the Seattle class b 30 mile veil. It just seems that earlier there was a lot of talk about keeping the cost down.....

Like you, I'm hoping for a less expensive way to comply. I'm thinking (or at least hoping) that as the 2020 deadline approaches, there'll be some more cost-effective options that become available.
I'm lucky, since I live just outside Seatac's mode C veil (unlike you being just inside it in Enumclaw) I can keep flying without ADS-B after the deadline as long as I stay out of the airspace which requires it. However that's a short term solution, not a long term one.

And, the target keeps moving....this is the FAA, after all. A couple of units have been approved, then approval has been rescinded, etc. So, I'm not going to equip in any case, but if I needed to, I'd wait as long as I possibly could, lest I get caught up in one of these goat ropes.

MTV

mtv wrote:And, the target keeps moving....this is the FAA, after all. A couple of units have been approved, then approval has been rescinded, etc. So, I'm not going to equip in any case, but if I needed to, I'd wait as long as I possibly could, lest I get caught up in one of these goat ropes.

MTV

They claim they are not budging on the date again, who knows though.

I ended up getting my ADSB-Out done completely free. My hardware came from a friend who through a complicated situation with the manufacturer ended up with an extra unit, I gave him $500 and installed it myself which was actually pretty easy, took about 3-4 hours. I had already laid a handful of extra wires in from the panel to the tail when I "restored" the plane a year or so ago so that saved a bunch of time. A local avionics shop gave me a questionable WAAS GPS antenna that ended up working just fine and I used an old transponder antenna another local had laying around that just needed to be bent straight again. I got the $500 rebate from the FAA to make myself whole, well I guess I did have to buy some connectors and some pins so I think I sunk about $50 into the whole project.....can't really complain about that.

Bigrenna wrote:FWIW... I went with the GTX345 for compliance. The installation was a HUGE PIA. The traffic is pretty damn cool, but I think there is just WAY too much BS to look at rather than just enjoy the view. "TRAFFIC, 3 O'CLOCK" "SHIT, AIRPLANE 6000' ABOVE YOU!!!!" "TRAFFIC!" "TRAFFIC!!!!" And don't get me started about the AHRS on the iPad and 796. Bluetooth doesn't connect automatically and has to be hooked up every time I start up....

I too have the GTX345. This unit is installed in both airplanes and displays traffic on my GTN650, 796, and Aera 660, and I have had few issues with "traffic traffic" distractions. I have a "mute traffic" button if things get really annoying. But I also limit the range for traffic warnings on my devices. Maybe you can limit the traffic range to more suitable levels? Do you have a traffic mute button?

As fas as Bluetooth connectivity, mine is automatic. Why are you needing to connect every time? Everything about your setup sounds less than optimal, and I would be frustrated as well.