Newbizor wrote:

mtv wrote:And, the target keeps moving....this is the FAA, after all. A couple of units have been approved, then approval has been rescinded, etc. So, I'm not going to equip in any case, but if I needed to, I'd wait as long as I possibly could, lest I get caught up in one of these goat ropes.

MTV

They claim they are not budging on the date again, who knows though.

I ended up getting my ADSB-Out done completely free. My hardware came from a friend who through a complicated situation with the manufacturer ended up with an extra unit, I gave him $500 and installed it myself which was actually pretty easy, took about 3-4 hours. I had already laid a handful of extra wires in from the panel to the tail when I "restored" the plane a year or so ago so that saved a bunch of time. A local avionics shop gave me a questionable WAAS GPS antenna that ended up working just fine and I used an old transponder antenna another local had laying around that just needed to be bent straight again. I got the $500 rebate from the FAA to make myself whole, well I guess I did have to buy some connectors and some pins so I think I sunk about $50 into the whole project.....can't really complain about that.

I wasn't referring to the date being a moving target, but rather the equipment. I'm aware of at least two manufacturers that have been "surprised" by the FAA first approving, then rescinding approval for their ADS-B units. That is the moving target I was referring to.

MTV

At the risk of being contrary, I'm happy with my ADS-B Out installation, a BK KT74 transponder attached to my existing 430W. I'm also happy with receiving ADS-B In information (weather and traffic) on my Stratus 2 and iPad Mini. Sorry about that.

Cary

Warning! Somewhat of a thread drift:

I am not sure if the cause of this being my stating one mfg. (NavWorx) and then installing another (FreeFlight). After the install I got back an all green GARS report on first flight (YEA!!).

I promptly went on line and filled out the requisite forms with my codes and telling the good folks at the FAA that I had indeed installed a FreeFlight system, which I am pretty sure they can figure out from their ground report.

All good right? Not so fast. I never got a confirmation back and there is no way to go back on the site to figure out if all is good.

After waiting about three weeks I sent an email to ADSBRebateHelp asking about the status.....now they need the sales receipt w/ address, model number and serial number. A copy of the 337 showing the install "may" suffice.

After that hoop was completed I got a notice that the check would be in the mail 4-6 weeks.

Lesson, if you don't get a "check in the mail" email from the FAA the check is not in the mail and you need to follow up.

BTW, the customer support a FreeFlight is top notch.

Tom what model did you install? Was the cost above 2 amu's.
Ron

Amu?

Unit was Rangr 978-XVR

Sorry. Amu's are aviation monetary units or 1,000.00 dollars.

About 3.5 Amy's. ADS-B In/out with wifi for iPad

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Media/All ... 0119epilot
Article basically states that it will be business as usual for the no electrical planes...although it doesn't really discuss class D, or high class E.

CFOT wrote:https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Media/All-News/2017/January/19/ADS-B-requirement-clarified-for-nonelectrical-aircraft?utm_source=ePilot&utm_medium=Content&utm_content=adv&utm_campaign=170119epilot
Article basically states that it will be business as usual for the no electrical planes...although it doesn't really discuss class D, or high class E.

The ADS-B mandate (and the transponder requirement) does not apply to Delta airspace in any case, which is why it's not mentioned in that legal interpretation.

MTV

Slight drift. I'm really, REALLY pleased with the traffic I'm getting on my iPad Mini, with the combination of having ADS-B Out and In, via the KT74 transponder and the Stratus 2. Yesterday was a terrific example.

Here's the situation: I had gone for a joy ride east of Greeley, just following the river. I was on the way back at 6500' (that's about 1800' AGL) when a Meridian called in, also east of Greeley, descending to land from 8500'. Initially he was about 6 miles behind me, but obviously going lots faster. So I kept an eye on him on the iPad, and he was getting pretty close when I made a position call about 8 miles out. By then I'd dropped down to 6000'. Then my system called out "traffic, 1 mile, 4 o'clock, 800' above", and I could see his blip moving toward me from behind and to the right. When he made a call that he was 7 miles out, so was I, so I made another position call. He then said, "I can see the Cessna traffic on the TCAS, but I don't see you." I told him that he was slightly behind me and to my right and about 500' above. He then decided to make a wide pattern, and I always make a pretty close in pattern, so that when he said he was abeam the numbers, so was I. I then turned announced turning base and final, and I'd landed and was off the runway when he announced turning base. I watched him land as I was taxiing back to take off again for some pattern work.

The extra comfort that I got from knowing where he was, was very valuable. It's almost like having extra eyes. Actually, it's even better, because until I watched him land, I never saw him, even when we were apparently parallel with each other on downwind.

Cary

Moss farmer wrote:I was trying to ascertain whether a less costly way to comply was available. I live and keep my plane on the edge of the Seattle class b 30 mile veil. It just seems that earlier there was a lot of talk about keeping the cost down. The faa even changed the rule to allow your current transponder to be used. If you have an experimental you pay about half of what certified owners pay for the same equipment. I thought maybe a less expensive way to comply could or should exist.
Ron

I'm in the same boat - I operate out of a Class C. Luckily I've got an E-AB, but that's still a ton of dough and there's been some uncertainty with at least one manufacturer. I'm glad I didn't get caught up in that one and because of it I'm going to wait for a while to see what all pops up and stays approved.

Hopefully the options get cheaper closer to whenever the mandatory date rolls around.

Cost of the equipment which is coming down to some degree but still plenty expensive then there's the 25 to 30 hours of shop time to get it installed. Too much for me. $500 rebate? That's just a joke as far as I'm concerned.

I've been seriously pondering whether or not to get out of flying lately. I'm not flying nearly as much anymore and even hesitate to spend the money on upgrades I really want (like sportsman stol kit). This is really the straw that's breaking the camels back for me. One of the big reasons I have the plane is to be able to fly north of Seattle's mode c ring. I'm never inside B space but I go through the ring and going around puts one pretty tight against the mountains. I wish they'd excluded the c ring but they didn't.

I am currently on a wait list for a shop to get a Stratus ESG installed. Hopefully I'll get it in time to get the $500 rebate this summer. I thought over the installation carefully and as much as I would like to save the money and just stay low I do love to get up to 11,500/12,500 in the summer where the air is smooth. It makes drinking coffee and eating a sandwich much easier.

There is some speculation on the requirement for drones/UAVs/UASs and ADS-B that might drive the cost down in the next few years. No one with a drone wants to (or can) spend $4k to equip a drone that cost ~$1k. If a company was able to make a cheap ADS-B solution that could be installed in drones that might translate into a cheap solution for certified aircraft. The fact that I am waiting to get a new transponder installed shows how much confidence I have in something like this materializing.

Swindler wrote:....There is some speculation on the requirement for drones/UAVs/UASs and ADS-B that might drive the cost down in the next few years. No one with a drone wants to (or can) spend $4k to equip a drone that cost ~$1k. If a company was able to make a cheap ADS-B solution that could be installed in drones that might translate into a cheap solution for certified aircraft. The fact that I am waiting to get a new transponder installed shows how much confidence I have in something like this materializing.

One can hope. From April 2015: http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/AEA- ... 824-1.html

More drift -
These guys entire product line is about UAV's/Drone's, with steps toward GA.

http://www.uavionix.com/products/ping200s/

I'm not very savvy on fancy airspace travel, so forgive this question:
Will transponders be obsolete or optional January of 2020? Is it already optional? If they have a unique code more specific than a squawk code it seems unnecessary. Unless they like to see a smattering of 1200/VFRs flying around on radar.

I'm shopping for expensive radio equipment and don't want to buy extra stuff and haul it around in the plane.

Thanks

wyomingiswindy wrote:I'm not very savvy on fancy airspace travel, so forgive this question:
Will transponders be obsolete or optional January of 2020? Is it already optional? If they have a unique code more specific than a squawk code it seems unnecessary. Unless they like to see a smattering of 1200/VFRs flying around on radar.

I'm shopping for expensive radio equipment and don't want to buy extra stuff and haul it around in the plane.

Thanks

The transponder is an integral component of an ADS-B system. And transponders will still only be required where ADS-B is, leaving a lot of the country without the requirement, for now, at least.

MTV

I'm not very savvy about busy airspace either but like MTV says, in airspace that currently requires a transponder you'll have ADSB out capability in 2020. I don't intend to have ADSB out capability so I no longer intend to install a transponder because come 2020 it won't get me into C or B airspace.

One additional thing you might want to consider is that if you would like to cross the border either into Canada or Mexico, you will need to have ADSB out in 2020. The only planes that won't be required to have that are the ones that were originally built without an electrical system. They are required to get a transponder waiver now, and one might assume that the same stipulation will continue but that is not certain. Also, you can not fly in Canada without a medical. That could change but that is the way it is now.
Charles

Farmboy wrote:More drift -
These guys entire product line is about UAV's/Drone's, with steps toward GA.

http://www.uavionix.com/products/ping200s/

I keep hoping for some sanity to show up in the form of a certified all-in-one solution. Uavionix apparently is developing an all-in-one solution, but doesn't have a "purchase" button for them on their web site yet. So I clicked on the purchase button for the transponder only Ping 200s. The price tag for that is $2,500. The price for an all-in-one with a gps source sufficient for certified aircraft is going to be well north of that. $500 is just a fart in this wind storm. It's looking like we will have to pay for ADS-B (while maintaining our transponders and Mode C) so that the airlines can shove user fees down our throats. Reminds me of Michael Corleone's offer to the Senator in Godfather II: "Nothing. And you will pay the application fee."

CAVU