hotrod180 wrote:
Cute, but I doubt that you fly if you put it to the test. Does CA or NV have boat registration stickers? WA does. "OK watercraft, where's your sticker?".
Same deal with claiming you're a vehicle when landing on roads. "OK where's your registration / ORV sticker".

I got mine in Nevada. $20 a year for the OHV sticker.

Gump

Timberwolf wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:

Rob wrote:... I'm disappointed because as cool as it is to go blasting across an open lake at full tilt in a half dozen airplanes, it's even cooler when you can do so in a location that isn't going to have people that are sure to be there for the sole purpose of seeking tranquility… In other words enjoying yourself without compromising someone else's enjoyment…

Given the "anti" attitude that a lot of legislators seems to have, very much of this sort of activity and publicity might get a "flight below 2000' AGL prohibited" zone placed on Lake Tahoe. Don't think it can't be done either- Lake Crescent on the north edge of Olympic National Park in Washington has such a restriction.

For my own education, I looked up lake crescent area and couldn't find where this restriction existed. I do see that such a restriction lies over the western seaboard and it violaties NOAA regulations through 15 CFR 922. However, is lake crescent not located in the area that you are requested not to fly below 2000' AGL, but is not regulatory? Don't get me wrong, the intent is to basically prevent otherwise legal low altitude flights and to not disturb people/wildlife in these areas. But isn't this more of a request rather than regulatory?

I wouldn't push the "request" vs regulatory issue. Below are excerpts of dialog I had last year with the National Park Aviation Manager and Justice Center regarding that issue. We really don't need clarification from any agency on that. They have reams of regulations and laws in their bag of tricks, and it will be some obscure Fish and Wildlife ruling that will make you OJ's bunk buddy. I've found the National Park and California State Park rangers I've dealt with to actually be quite interested in and helpful with what we do, and supportive.


14 CFR Part 91.119 outlines the minimum safe altitudes that aircraft must operate at in U.S. airspace. This is difficult to enforce because it is a challenge to get tail numbers off aircraft in flight and most persons can not reliably tell the difference between a small aircraft that is 1000' or 2000'+ AGL. Plus there is the issue of evidence.

There are some other statutes that may apply to an incidence of low level flight particularly if it entails harassment of wildlife or persons in a National Park. Googling 36 CFR will bring all this up as well.

36 CFR Chapter I, Part 2:

§ 2.2 Wildlife protection.
(a) The following are prohibited:
(1) The taking of wildlife, except by authorized hunting and trapping activities conducted in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section.
(2) The feeding, touching, teasing, frightening or intentional disturbing of wildlife nesting, breeding or other activities.
(3) Possessing unlawfully taken wildlife or portions thereof.

§ 2.34 Disorderly conduct.
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause public alarm, nuisance, jeopardy or violence, or knowingly or recklessly creating a risk thereof, such person commits any of the following prohibited acts:
(1) Engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent behavior.
(2) Uses language, an utterance, or gesture, or engages in a display or act that is obscene, physically threatening or menacing, or done in a manner that is likely to inflict injury or incite an immediate breach of the peace.
(3) Makes noise that is unreasonable, considering the nature and purpose of the actor's conduct, location, time of day or night, and other factors that would govern the conduct of a reasonably prudent person under the circumstances.
(4) Creates or maintains a hazardous or physically offensive condition.

Wow, I saw some of the comments on this post, and I knew the BCP forum has grown, it is starting to sound like the AOPA redboard with the rude folks coming out. Unfortunate.

aktahoe1 wrote:Thanks for all the replies, comments, concerns etc.

I love how some folks get there panties in a wad over tire cleaning. As Rob said its about as easy as landing on the runway at night. Not much to it, but that does not mean you should go out and do it.

I do very much appreciate all of the concerns over the giant Kalifornia Gem.

Probably wasn't the best place to do this BUT it was 100% legal. The side note is that it was a very selfish act that my brain has been begging for. Having the heli and camera was a bonus.

We have not posted a video. Just a short 5 second iPhone clip.

For now the video will sit idle. I hear and appreciate the concerns.

Akt

Thank you for not posting the video. And thank you for admitting the inherent selfishness of the act...that's generally not an easy thing to admit to oneself, much less to the peanut gallery.

I hope aviators on all sides of this take some time now and again to ponder the potential consequences of their actions.

"100% legal" might keep someone from being successfully prosecuted, but it's a very poor yardstick for measuring what's appropriate.

A person could do 50 touch-n-goes in a row at Vines and not break a law, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have serious repercussions for Idaho back country aviation, especially if it's filmed and dumped on the web.

Laws and regulations get passed to keep people from taking advantage of the fact that no law prohibited their inappropriate behavior. Once on the books, it's pretty rare to get them removed.

Flying an airplane is much higher impact and higher visibility than a lot of other activities such as skiing or kayaking or even wingsuiting, and like it or not, aviators are bunched together and pay en-masse for the decisions made by individuals.

Since to a great degree we're all in this together, lets give serious consideration to the repercussions of scratching our personal itches, and especially to the consequences of filming it for the world to see. It's really hard to see a down side to NOT sharing personal hero footage with the masses...

For folks getting wrapped up in the minutia of legality and loopholes, all I can say is being found innocent doesn't mitigate the punishment of having to prove it in court, so make sure the juice is worth the squeeze before attempting to set legal precedent!

Hammer, you have a great way with words, and are spot on IMHO.

AKT, well written reply.

8GCBC, somethings amiss with your last post, I can't make heads or tails of it so I won't quote it, but perhaps a review is in order

GumpAir wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:
Cute, but I doubt that you fly if you put it to the test. Does CA or NV have boat registration stickers? WA does. "OK watercraft, where's your sticker?".
Same deal with claiming you're a vehicle when landing on roads. "OK where's your registration / ORV sticker".

I got mine in Nevada. $20 a year for the OHV sticker.

Gump

Here here…

As a AZ resident who lives right close to Kalifornias Imperial Sand dunes, I maintain a CA Non Resident OHV registration for my cub. $30/yr keeps the resident parkies in the happy Most the time just being able to show good intention is all it takes to keep a parkie, Sherriff, or other LEO from turning a situation he can't reconcile into a negative one… but that's just been my experience YMMV

Take care, Rob

Rob,

Join the Seaplane Pilots Association then, it will make perfect sense. Seaplanes are a huge political mess, in some areas.

Headoutdaplane wrote:Wow, I saw some of the comments on this post, and I knew the BCP forum has grown, it is starting to sound like the AOPA redboard with the rude folks coming out. Unfortunate.

XX10

M6RV6 wrote:

Headoutdaplane wrote:Wow, I saw some of the comments on this post, and I knew the BCP forum has grown, it is starting to sound like the AOPA redboard with the rude folks coming out. Unfortunate.

XX10

Thought of this some more! Zane you have a great site, I am so sorry it has gone the way it has! Love Buddy, See ya somewhere along the way soon. Good By!

I know what it's like to be sensitive, that's okay. Enjoy yourself on Facebook. I'll be here chained to the rock.

Headoutdaplane wrote:Wow, I saw some of the comments on this post, and I knew the BCP forum has grown, it is starting to sound like the AOPA redboard with the rude folks coming out. Unfortunate.

Meh. Every day is a new day. It's like Alaska weather. I read back over this whole thread and it actually seems pretty mellow.

If you post extraordinary stuff, expect extraordinary responses.

8GCBC, thanks for the heads up, and na, doesn't sound like a place for me to visit

GT, I've got twisted over other people words and left, I've got twisted over other peoples feelings and deleted my posts, but in the end I find out that there are good folks and good friends to be made here. Crazy thing is, the best friends I've made on this site have been the folks I've been at odds with in a thread or two… take a break if you must, but life too short to short change yourself over someone else's words…

As for rude, we all know about interpreting and communicating on the web… about 90% of the time it's gonna be a crap shoot wether the common man is going to understand what another common man wrote… a bigger crap shoot if someone like me did the writing

I found one post on this thread way rude (but more importantly way out of character for the poster)… because I wasn't sharp enough to realize there was an undertone alluding to something I wasn't aware of…

As always YMMV
Take care, Rob

I thought it was great! He said there were no boats on the water.
I'm glad I don't live close by....2 planes side by side would have even been more fun.
It's to bad the left works so hard at controlling others lives. Look how many changes they have managed to shove down our throats in the last 40 years. Imagine what we will be left with in another 40.
This could get some liberals wound up and cause some unwanted problems but I don't think it really maters much. They won't stop until there is complete control over us? At least that's the direction we are trending.
As far as contaminating the lake, we clean our trailer tires off every time we back in the water to unload the boat plus what ever is on the boat. And what about 2 stroke outboards on the water? Probably won't be long before I'm forced to scrap my 200 Merc.
Can't "bag" an airstrip either, pretty soon twice a year will be to much.....might as well cave and just stay home?
Cheers

Jeez u guys are a bunch of Nancy's!

Last time I checked it was still a free country.

If u let the antis dictate your actions then they are "winning"!

Have fun and be safe.

We've now entered the painful third phase of a controversial thread, where some individuals have worked up a head of steam after reading in quiet orniness and made certain broad spectrum conclusions about the significance of the prior-offered opinions on the OP. Like Godwin's Law is to the mention of Nazis, we need a new descriptor for the phenomenon that creates a dichotomy in associating seemingly unrelated opinions with a political bent. Tread carefully those who decide to chime in henceforth because the brands and tattoos are coming out depending on what you post here, and God help you if you vote for raising the flaps.

Shit, I haven't even started drinking yet.
Unfortunately it started off this way half way through the first page.

Zzz wrote:We've now entered the painful third phase of a controversial thread, where some individuals have worked up a head of steam after reading in quiet orniness and made certain broad spectrum conclusions about the significance of the prior-offered opinions on the OP. Like Godwin's Law is to the mention of Nazis, we need a new descriptor for the phenomenon that creates a dichotomy in associating seemingly unrelated opinions with a political bent. Tread carefully those who decide to chime in henceforth because the brands and tattoos are coming out depending on what you post here, and God help you if you vote for raising the flaps.

Bout time flaps got mentioned in this thread. I was gonna, but knew I couldn't keep it civil.

And for those who want to bring politics into it, I'm just going to repurpose a previous post, then use the ever-handy "ignore poster" function.

Nothing personal against the poster or his expressed viewpoint, but as a preemptive strike, can I just BEG that politics be left out of all posts for the next...well, forever?

There are trying times close at hand and tempers will run higher than a cumulous cloud, but nothing will be gained and much will be lost by discussing it here.

Speaking generally (not to the poster, but to the community at large), nobody who agrees with your politics is going to love you any more for that agreement, but everyone with a different opinion is going to love you less for having heard it. It's all lose and no win. Doesn't matter what your political opinion is...you're going to generate more hate than you are love if you discuss politics here.

I'm more than happy to discuss aviation policy, but regardless of my political stance, if I have to deal with politics when I log in I'm just going to leave. I do not need that crap injected into my fun time.

Political opinions are just like flatulence... Your closest friends will accept them, your close friends will forgive them, and everyone else will resent being subjected to them.

Let's leave politics out of BCP.

This thread is officially stupid at this point in my mind . Nice work on the shitstorm Quinner .

Tree humpers front line news report: pilots are trying to destroy the Gem of the Nevada's they are using a environmentally unsafe fuel in there aircraft and dumping it while preforming a maneuver they call water skiing which is were they drag big bouncy tires they use to land in environmentally unsound area in the high dessert. Their goal is disrupting the environment enough so the they undiscovered fish in the lake will that may live in the second rock layer at the deepest part of the lake will never be discovered and the almost extinct flower of the gem of the nevada's that has never been seen will never bloom again. Thus we are rallying to shut off all access to these area's unless you are smoking weed and haven't taken a bath in a month.

Well Kevin now look what you did!!! Haha great flying tho looks like a blast!

low rider wrote:This thread is officially stupid at this point in my mind . Nice work on the shitstorm Quinner .

Who's Quinner?

Hey. Thanks Z for the hat and Tee
[emoji106].
Not to change the subject or anything LOL

Hammer wrote:

low rider wrote:This thread is officially stupid at this point in my mind . Nice work on the shitstorm Quinner .

Who's Quinner?

The OP