colopilot wrote:I'm still waiting to find out what hanging out my shingle means. Is it even legal in most states?

I guess it is just a more euphemistic “holding out”?

colopilot wrote:I'm still waiting to find out what hanging out my shingle means. Is it even legal in most states?

If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.

Careful this is a family show you know

colopilot wrote:I'm still waiting to find out what hanging out my shingle means. Is it even legal in most states?

I think I understand where Gold is going in that there is a practical mindset that is kicking in that has been tallying up the costs of being an aircraft owner/pilot that wants to determine where he can begin to at least defray some of these costs. Without a complete cost analysis one wouldn't be able to determine if such an endeavor is financial feasible. The reality is that you can't fly for hire without proving to the regulators you are capable and proficient enough to place other peoples lives in your hands. They say that getting a PPL is merely a license to learn and that is very true. Simply knowing how to land an airplane that doesn't result in a giant ball of recyclable aluminum somewhere near the end of a runway is just the beginning. It takes years of hard earned experience to have the ability to understand what the sky is doing so that it provides a pleasant experience to pax that have no idea what is going on around them as they are new to flight.

You can get a commercial rating with 250 hrs; it is usually expected that an instrument rating is also prerequisite but sometimes not. Pipeline patrol is conducted in VFR conditions so although no instrument rating is needed some operators require it while others don't. The instrument rating is beneficial but the cost of getting you and the airplane compliant can make anyone hesitate to write the checks. Here again the cost benefit ratio kicks in.

As has been said, innocent people expect that you know what you're doing as a pilot for hire. The regulations are what have been put in place by a 3rd party that says you have demonstrated that you are up to the task.

It's really not a burdensome system; I initially got overwhelmed with the complexity of the regulations while studying to be a pilot but as the lessons were absorbed and experience acquired and the logic was understood as to why things are done the way they are, I got the big picture. Now that I am here, it's not so bad. It works out well.

My shingle has been hanging out here for over 20 years.

Zzz wrote:

$#,+ on a shingle, with world peace.

Hang out your shingle means open for business.

LOL I think there are more than a few pilots of simple small planes that would like to do their own maintenance and annuals.
So whats so unreasonable about asking if there is anywhere its done like that?
While Im sure most regulations have a reason behind them Im not so sure that GOOD reasons have followed all the way to today.
In fact I think little bits of piecemeal ideas have turned a lot of things into simple insanity.
Even if we have a well regulated flying environment to try to tell someone its a free place is laughable.The best doesnt mean the same as free

Back to my original questions
let me make them a bit clearer
Each is separate and should stand and be answered on its own.
Are there places I am free to do my own maintenance on a factory aircraft and legally fly it afterward? Where?
Are there places that place few if any restrictions on commercial flying of small planes? Where?

Just go get your A &P , and your IA and you can wrench on your certified plane all you want . Then you can use it commercially .

Back to my original questions let me make them a bit clearer Each is separate and should stand and be answered on its own.

Are there places I am free to do my own maintenance on a factory aircraft and legally fly it afterward? Where?

The short answers are yes and yes.

You are at anytime welcome to work on your own airplane; factory built or otherwise, no special qualifications required but is that wise, not likely. Additionally once properly qualified you are equally welcome; again on your own aircraft, factory built or otherwise to "return it to service".

As for the where; anywhere in North America, or at least Canada

Cheers

The places without restriction (most of us think of them as "qualifications") on commercial operations are not usually places where you actually want to hire someone to fly you. It can seem restrictive I agree, but these regs exist mostly because people died otherwise. Some may go too far or be the subject of much debate like the 1500hr rule for airline pilots, but most of it is just designed to ensure the flying public can expect a certain skillset in the person flying them.

As for maintenance - you can do just about anything here yourself. I'm restoring an entire airplane myself and am not an A&P (yet). The caveat (and it's a biggie) is that my work still has to meet professional standards, and a certificated A&P IA must sign off my work as airworthy before I can fly it. I have a cooperative IA letting me do this under his supervision and was very fortunate to forge that relationship early on. I'm fine with this -- my life, and the lives of those I fly are on the line, and there is little room for error or shenanigans. If my work isn't up to par it shouldn't be signed off. I also know enough to stop before I get in over my head, and that self-awareness is also part of my IA's agreement with me. The other cool part is once you've done enough of this and logged it, you can have your IA endorse you to take the A and/or P exam and actually get your own certification.

Goldinthecreek wrote:LOL I think there are more than a few pilots of simple small planes that would like to do their own maintenance and annuals.
So whats so unreasonable about asking if there is anywhere its done like that?
While Im sure most regulations have a reason behind them Im not so sure that GOOD reasons have followed all the way to today.
In fact I think little bits of piecemeal ideas have turned a lot of things into simple insanity.
Even if we have a well regulated flying environment to try to tell someone its a free place is laughable.The best doesnt mean the same as free

Back to my original questions
let me make them a bit clearer
Each is separate and should stand and be answered on its own.
Are there places I am free to do my own maintenance on a factory aircraft and legally fly it afterward? Where?
Are there places that place few if any restrictions on commercial flying of small planes? Where?

Just forget about aviation. It's not for you. What you want doesn't exist in any form that a reasonable person would want to embrace.

Are you even a pilot yet?? If not, you need to get some hours under your belt before you start bitching about how things are done. I don't mean that to sound as rude as it probably does, but seriously...what do you actually know about flying?

Try the Democratic Republic of the Congo.....and best of luck.

MTV

Sorry...forgot to answer the actual questions:

Goldinthecreek wrote:...
Are there places I am free to do my own maintenance on a factory aircraft and legally fly it afterward? Where?...

America! Just get your A&P and IA certificates and you're good to go. If you don't have those, you have ZERO business wrenching on an airplane that carries passengers for hire.åç

Goldinthecreek wrote:Are there places that place few if any restrictions on commercial flying of small planes? Where?.

Yes! Failed countries which have no government structure to keep screwballs like you from taking unwitting passengers into the air. As has already been suggested, Africa is probably you're best bet.

Best of luck. Now please go away.

There's NO gold left in this creek; please go pan elsewhere, good luck Mr. GoldintheCreek

Goldinthecreek wrote:.... Are there places I am free to do my own maintenance on a factory aircraft and legally fly it afterward? Where?
...

Right here in America.
The owner of an airplane may perform preventive maintenance.
Read the FAR's-- esp FAR 43.3 (g) and FAR 43 appendix A(c).
You can also do a lot of other work under the supervision of an A&P or IA,
which he must then inspect & sign off on.

I am amazed at how rude and unhelpful most of the folks on this thread have been.
Kinda wonder about your reading comprehension too.
Not one person has actually answered the question ,some have postulated possibilities. But no one not one of you has said either No or yes in the country of xxx.
I actually wonder if most of you are lawyers cause You sure seem to be about embracing regulations.
Do any of you actually think get your AI is a helpful response to the question ?

Personally, I have operated in a whole bunch of different environments worldwide. Even the smallest country will regulate you, sometimes to death, especially if your not from there. They tend to be very protective of their little world in favor of any local, especially if your making money at it. I have always had to get local endorsement, if the ops where commercial I had to operate under their rules and get an operator's license or pay somebody who had one to operate under theirs. The only place who didn't regulate us was Somalia, but they didn't have any form of government for the lion's share of time I operated there. This didn't stop any random group of guys from showing up with a bunch of guns essentially looking for some dash to not shoot up your airplane.

Some countries have very arcane aviation regulations that have not been updated since the 30's. Take Honduras, they apply the replacement intervals to light aircraft skins, much like fabric. To do my ops I eventually had two 121 operations and two 135 operations (the foreign equivalents). For a while I was able to use my US 135's to cover, but after 12 months you would have to become a local operator. This usually involved getting a local partner to comply. Don't get me started about places in the sub-continent or SE Asia. You can't even import an aircraft to many that are not 15 to 7 years old, max. If you want to work on your aircraft you need to hire locals and supervise them, provided you have a license. If you want to work on it you need to have a work permit or be a local permanent resident.

Random Civil aviation dudes showing up for a pop inspection:

Goldinthecreek wrote:I am amazed at how rude and unhelpful most of the folks on this thread have been.
Kinda wonder about your reading comprehension too.
Not one person has actually answered the question ,some have postulated possibilities. But no one not one of you has said either No or yes in the country of xxx.
I actually wonder if most of you are lawyers cause You sure seem to be about embracing regulations.
Do any of you actually think get your AI is a helpful response to the question ?

Why don't you try to add a little more context to your not at all relevant to back country flying question?

You want to know of a country where you can build, fly and commercially operate something in the least restrictive way. Plenty of people have tried to answer such a vague and meaningless question for you.
TLDR: It doesn't exist in the developed world.