I have no desire to enter class C airspace or come within 30 nautical miles of big city class B airports. Visiting Canada prolly isn't worth the hassle. I don't think I could get up to class A altitudes before I'd have to land in order to drain the coffee I drank in my kitchen listening to AWOS before I headed off to the hangar.

Currently, I have a Collins 251 VHF comm radio. (It's ancient: so it will prolly still be working like a DC-3 long after the Martins, Convairs, YSs, and HPs designed to replace it have been scrapped.) It is mostly used for unicom, and occasionally for tower frequency.

I am told that since my plane was built in 1946 under CAR 3 it is not legally required to have a radio, so I would not have to use a TSO unit if I wanted in the future to replace the panel mounted radio with a hand held unit.

Pretty sure there's no requirement for a radio in your airplane. I'd keep the Collins as long as it works, then go to a handheld. Install an exterior antenna to connect to, and use a headset adaptor. Downside is the handhelds can be awkward to change frequencies, but you probably will only use a couple frequencies anyway.

What are you running for navigation, new tech of some sort or an Eyeball Mk1. Do you have an installed electrical systems of some sort.

For the record; CANADA is well worth the hassle, even pink Ercoupes are welcome north of the 49th parallel.

My 150 had a handheld wired to the intercom. I did my training with it and never saw the need to upgrade, neither have the 2 owners since. Works great.

A1Skinner wrote:My 150 had a handheld wired to the intercom. I did my training with it and never saw the need to upgrade, neither have the 2 owners since. Works great.

And that was in Canada

The aforementioned Collins IS the electronics suite.

Mapleflt wrote:What are you running for navigation, new tech of some sort or an Eyeball Mk1.

Usually five balls: four eyeballs and a floating ball compass that does double duty as an attitude indicator. (IFR means "I follow roads / rivers.")

Mapleflt wrote:Do you have an installed electrical systems of some sort.

Pretty basic: generator, regulator, battery, starter, radio, position lights, instrument lights, a couple switches, some wire, and a couple fuses.

Mapleflt wrote:For the record; CANADA is well worth the hassle, even pink Ercoupes are welcome north of the 49th parallel.

I wasn't slighting Canada. When I was a kid there was a "guestbook" at the unguarded border crossing and "guests" were asked to "kindly sign in and out."

Maybe I am misreading this. (edit: see later post I'm told the following is incorrect) It might be someone's nightmare senario, or a self-serving embellishment such as when a radio shop says "once an aircraft has a TSO'd unit in it..."

I looked at EAA and AOPAs websites and it says that entry into Canada required: a passport, driver licence, proof of personal and aircraft insurance acceptable in Canada, a radio license, a transponder, landing lights and a rotating beacon. Reentry to the US requires a customs sticker and signing a form that states if they make my aircraft un-airworthy inspecting it it's my responsibility to put it right.

The Collins is probably no longer legal to use, because it doesn't meet the "modern" frequency stability requirement of 3 ppm. that was mandated back in about 1985, but nobody cares. When I flew an Ercoupe I had a portable radio wired into a panel mount intercom, it worked fine because I needed the intercom more than the radio. Intercom was also useful because I could play music over it, very handy when it takes all day to get somewhere.

Naomi wrote:The aforementioned Collins IS the electronics suite.

Mapleflt wrote:What are you running for navigation, new tech of some sort or an Eyeball Mk1.

Usually five balls: four eyeballs and a floating ball compass that does double duty as an attitude indicator. (IFR means "I follow roads / rivers.")

Mapleflt wrote:Do you have an installed electrical systems of some sort.

Pretty basic: generator, regulator, battery, starter, radio, position lights, instrument lights, a couple switches, some wire, and a couple fuses.

Mapleflt wrote:For the record; CANADA is well worth the hassle, even pink Ercoupes are welcome north of the 49th parallel.

I wasn't slighting Canada. When I was a kid there was a "guestbook" at the unguarded border crossing and "guests" were asked to "kindly sign in and out."

Maybe I am misreading this. It might be someone's nightmare senario, or a self-serving embellishment such as when a radio shop says "once an aircraft has a TSO'd unit in it..."

I looked at EAA and AOPAs websites and it says that entry into Canada required: a passport, driver licence, proof of personal and aircraft insurance acceptable in Canada, a radio license, a transponder, landing lights and a rotating beacon. Reentry to the US requires a customs sticker and signing a form that states if they make my aircraft un-airworthy inspecting it it's my responsibility to put it right.

Wow, I've never heard those requirements for entering Canada. Transponders aren't required here, so thats out, and neither are landing lights unless you are hauling passengers at night, so thats out for most as well. The radio license is never asked for, and for a US pilot would be no issue anyways. Not sure what personal insurance they would care about? And beacon isn't required if you have strobes. So most of the list is off base.

A1Skinner wrote:My 150 had a handheld wired to the intercom. I did my training with it and never saw the need to upgrade, neither have the 2 owners since. Works great.

The panel's vinyl (edit: it was prolly leather back then) and chrome are gone but it's uncut. The radio just replaced one glove box. (I even got the removed door.) Someday I might "restore" the panel, or more likely I'll spend that time and money flying. I don't "hate" the Collins, my mechanic says it might outlast the airframe. I was just thinking about options.

Naomi wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:My 150 had a handheld wired to the intercom. I did my training with it and never saw the need to upgrade, neither have the 2 owners since. Works great.

The panel's vinyl and chrome are gone but it's uncut. The radio just replaced one glove box. (I even got the removed door.) Someday I might "restore" the panel, or more likely I'll spend that time and money flying. I don't "hate" the Collins, my mechanic says it might outlast the airframe. I was just thinking about options.

Ya I know what you mean. In reality a nice Garmin GTR200 or ICOM 220 is relatively inexpensive, has a 2 place intercom built in, and would be perfect for your plane. It's not TSO, so you don't have to worry about that. Nice that you don't need a stand alone intercom anymore. And both can monitor a standby frequency, so kind if like 2 comms in 1.

A1Skinner wrote:So most of the list is off base.

Leave it to the internet, misinformation at the speed of light. I just double checked the EAA and AOPA sites. They prolly got it off Wiki, and it prolly only applies to a 10 passenger turboprop landing at Toronto International...

That's really good to know, thanks. It may be something to do when the COVID restrictions go away.

A1Skinner wrote:

Naomi wrote:The aforementioned Collins IS the electronics suite.

Mapleflt wrote:What are you running for navigation, new tech of some sort or an Eyeball Mk1.

Usually five balls: four eyeballs and a floating ball compass that does double duty as an attitude indicator. (IFR means "I follow roads / rivers.")

Mapleflt wrote:Do you have an installed electrical systems of some sort.

Pretty basic: generator, regulator, battery, starter, radio, position lights, instrument lights, a couple switches, some wire, and a couple fuses.

Mapleflt wrote:For the record; CANADA is well worth the hassle, even pink Ercoupes are welcome north of the 49th parallel.

I wasn't slighting Canada. When I was a kid there was a "guestbook" at the unguarded border crossing and "guests" were asked to "kindly sign in and out."

Maybe I am misreading this. It might be someone's nightmare senario, or a self-serving embellishment such as when a radio shop says "once an aircraft has a TSO'd unit in it..."

I looked at EAA and AOPAs websites and it says that entry into Canada required: a passport, driver licence, proof of personal and aircraft insurance acceptable in Canada, a radio license, a transponder, landing lights and a rotating beacon. Reentry to the US requires a customs sticker and signing a form that states if they make my aircraft un-airworthy inspecting it it's my responsibility to put it right.

Wow, I've never heard those requirements for entering Canada. Transponders aren't required here, so thats out, and neither are landing lights unless you are hauling passengers at night, so thats out for most as well. The radio license is never asked for, and for a US pilot would be no issue anyways. Not sure what personal insurance they would care about? And beacon isn't required if you have strobes. So most of the list is off base.

It's my understanding that even a radio license isn't required anymore, or at least not for the airframe.

If it was me I'd go cruising on Ebay for an older previously enjoyed Nav/Comm unit, something like GNC250, maybe an XL if you want a basic moving map. Anything newer will have 8.33 spacing so that's covered and if you should ever get something like an AV30 the GNC will output a signal to it for lateral guidance as will many other makes & models. There is a ton of used avionic available, some people just want the latest and greatest but the "old" stuff is still very functional.

Here's an example,

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified ... L-TSO.html

You can see out of that airplane, even in a turn. That's safer than any radio.

A few years ago, I paid about $250 for an Icom A14 handheld & a headset adapter.
They work great, esp if hooked to an external antenna.
A friend of mine bought one & mounted the rubber duckie antenna that came with it as an external, worked just fine.
Can't beat the bang for the buck,

contactflying wrote:You can see out of that airplane, even in a turn. That's safer than any radio.

I agree, but not as safe as looking outside AND monitoring/making blind calls on the local radio frequency. It is just not the same as it was 50 years ago, even 20 years ago when I did my PPL. There is MORE and FASTER traffic everywhere now and I live in the boondocks. You used to be looking out the window for a 80kt cub or even a 110kt 172. Now you are watching for 200kt RV's and other experimentals plus small regional aircraft going into some small airports. Try to see that before its too late, hard enough when you know their altitude and approx. location.

I even have both my comms on for a quick flight around my farm. Low level pipeline patrols, gilders, crop dusters - you just never know.

Trying to justify doing it the old way and saying just looking out the window is safest is a cheap cop out. In this day and age of relatively cheap electronics, not having at least one comm radio and a form of gps navigation makes zero sence.

If all you can afford is a handheld for now, better than nothing - but as said panel mounts are not that expensive and don't fly around the cockpit in turbulence

Mark Y. wrote:

contactflying wrote:You can see out of that airplane, even in a turn. That's safer than any radio.

I agree, but not as safe as looking outside AND monitoring/making blind calls on the local radio frequency. It is just not the same as it was 50 years ago, even 20 years ago when I did my PPL. There is MORE and FASTER traffic everywhere now and I live in the boondocks. You used to be looking out the window for a 80kt cub or even a 110kt 172. Now you are watching for 200kt RV's and other experimentals plus small regional aircraft going into some small airports. Try to see that before its too late, hard enough when you know their altitude and approx. location.

I even have both my comms on for a quick flight around my farm. Low level pipeline patrols, gilders, crop dusters - you just never know.

Trying to justify doing it the old way and saying just looking out the window is safest is a cheap cop out. In this day and age of relatively cheap electronics, not having at least one comm radio and a form of gps navigation makes zero sence.

If all you can afford is a handheld for now, better than nothing - but as said panel mounts are not that expensive and don't fly around the cockpit in turbulence

100% agree Mark. We've had up to 17 ag aircraft working in a 25 mile radius, plus other aircraft low level flying around at my place. No reason in this day and age to not have a comm to monitor, and these new and cheap ones that can monitor 2 frequencies just increase safety. For me personally, $2000 for increased safety for all is cheap.

No, Ag is not even that way anymore. There is a lot of room out there, but also more congestion in many places. You have to love the desert. You young guys/female aviators are in charge. You are smart and tech savvy. Old soldiers will fade away. You are the future. Just be aware of history. A very smart guy long ago said, "There is nothing new under the sun." He really understood human nature.

I fly my kit plane, go cart ,with earplugs, no radio. It's a whole other experience, just you and the plane, no attitude indicator, turn coordinator, radio, transponder, nothing but an airspeed, compass and engine instruments. I fly low, I'm always looking and try not to put myself where others might be.
I like no radio.

In relatively busy airspace, put in a used radio.

contactflying wrote:No, Ag is not even that way anymore. There is a lot of room out there, but also more congestion in many places. You have to love the desert. You young guys/female aviators are in charge. You are smart and tech savvy. Old soldiers will fade away. You are the future. Just be aware of history. A very smart guy long ago said, "There is nothing new under the sun." He really understood human nature.

I was in Arkansas in the winter and they were talking about how none of their planes have comms. Then they were talking about how their secretaries husband who sprayed for them died because of a midair. Just seems careless to have a million dollar airplane and not run a comm. Up in my area low level is where there is a lot of traffic though, so maybe I have a jaded view.

I logged a bit over two hours of flight time today, and maybeeee spent sixty seconds on the raidio, all of which was making unicom announcemets. It was on, and I heard a few from close enough that I paid attention. A radio isn't necessarily a bad thing in my book, but I think some people are so enamored with electronics that they would be just as happy playing 'Flight Simulator' (not anyone HERE at BCP of course).

I like paper maps for a somber reason: if I'm ever forced down I can carry them with me as I walk out of wherever and navigate even if there are no cell phone towers nearby. In an odd way ADS-B does contribute to my safety. Without one I can't fly into congested airspace which suits me fine.

I'm just not interested in the latest gismos. One or two comm channels is fine.