Looking at buying a cub from L48 and flying up this spring. No electrics just a basic cub do I need ADSB to take the trench route and those who have come up with no xponder any restrictions or good places to stop to avoiding class C?

Not required in Canada, I manage all over the L48 without it, a tiny slice of Class C near PANC Anchorage that I can see but lots of alternate airports all around it.

Don’t need ADS-B.

Do need to get transponder waiver for lower 48 Canada border.

Http://fly2ak.com

What Ted Said!!

I came up last spring without a transponder, filed for and received an exemption. Crossed at Sweet Grass Mt. in less than ten minutes.
I had an entire binder of paperwork and didn't actually use most of it, but I had it. Use the Eapis thingy, have all your ducks in a row and go.

Ted had a great webpage that lays out all of this quite well.

fky2/ak.com

No transponder required unless you're crossing an ADIZ. Most of the US - Canada border is not an ADIZ.

That is my understanding also after some research.

You ABSOLUTELY do need a transponder code, or a transponder waiver, when crossing to/from the lower 48 to/from Canada.

The —only— exception is if you are crossing at one of the airstrips right on, straddling, the border. For instance Whetstone or Porthill.

I'd be interested to see where that's written Ted, I've never seen a specific regulation that says I need a transponder for anything other than an ADIZ.

tedwaltman wrote:You ABSOLUTELY do need a transponder code, or a transponder waiver, when crossing to/from the lower 48 to/from Canada.

The —only— exception is if you are crossing at one of the airstrips right on, straddling, the border. For instance Whetstone or Porthill.

Porthill is really nice to cross at, a grass strip right on the border. I think you can even cross on floats there.

I’m doing further research.

You’re right, there is no ADIZ between Canada & the U.S.. That’s also why you don’t need 12” N-#’s to cross the Canadian border.

Numerous references cite the “requirement” for a discrete border-crossing transponder code. Thus far, the ones I’ve looked at do not provide a FAA/FAR/DHS source.

Yet, I’ve never been told by Great Falls Radio, or Canadian ATC, “You don’t need one” when calling (phone/radio) to get my cross-border transponder code.

You could be technically correct, —maybe— after further digging we don’t need a code. Yet, CBP staff and Flight Service and Nav-Canada folks (again) never said “don’t need” and always immediately supplied a code.

I, for one, don’t want to extend nor complicate my customs experience by telling any DHS agent “I’m sorry, but you’re wrong.” I can hear the cries now, “If you don’t stand firm you will see your rights continue to erode.” That’s true. But, life is too short—I’m not interested in being a “rights” test case. I’m not interested in attaching a ream of paper in response to the certified-mail FAA letter of inquiry. Nor do I want to be “flagged” for extra attention, whether that is an unjustified flag or not, in “their” system.

Thank you for challenging me to truly dig into this. I suspect there are enough FAA/CBP/DHS/Nav-Canada (perhaps?) misinformed (?) agents out there on this topic to turn a five minute customs stop into a six month paper nightmare.

If I find a regulatory source, I will gladly post. And I will correct the “Customs” page procedures on http://fly2ak.com but in the meantime, I’m getting a cross-border transponder code.

Interesting, i have never received a transponder code for crossing into Canada. I remember reading about getting one, but when crossing i dont ever remember it coming up.
I have never had my paperwork looked at and only once had anyone in official capacity come out to the plane on the Canadian side, and they only looked at my drivers license. I'm not saying don't bother with the "mandatory paperwork", just my experience.

NavCanada will never tell you its not need, they will simply issue you one because you've asked for it. They are not tasked with make your choices, they just provide the service if requested. The FIS operator will answer your questions on policy and process if asked, they may not however know the rules. Unfortunately the other part of this story is they won't tell you when its need but will issue a CADOR's report if they see a violation.

On my last border crossing after HSF, I was at Ellensburg when I realised the wx was changing and I had better hustle. I took off without filing a flight plan intending to do it en route as I had to make Penticton before 16:30 for Canadian customs. I had poor radio contact with Seattle centre who told me that all I needed was a discrete code and they gave me one. Canadian customs were happy. YMMV.

tedwaltman wrote:I’m doing further research.

You’re right, there is no ADIZ between Canada & the U.S.. That’s also why you don’t need 12” N-#’s to cross the Canadian border.

Numerous references cite the “requirement” for a discrete border-crossing transponder code. Thus far, the ones I’ve looked at do not provide a FAA/FAR/DHS source.

Yet, I’ve never been told by Great Falls Radio, or Canadian ATC, “You don’t need one” when calling (phone/radio) to get my cross-border transponder code.

You could be technically correct, —maybe— after further digging we don’t need a code. Yet, CBP staff and Flight Service and Nav-Canada folks (again) never said “don’t need” and always immediately supplied a code.

I, for one, don’t want to extend nor complicate my customs experience by telling any DHS agent “I’m sorry, but you’re wrong.” I can hear the cries now, “If you don’t stand firm you will see your rights continue to erode.” That’s true. But, life is too short—I’m not interested in being a “rights” test case. I’m not interested in attaching a ream of paper in response to the certified-mail FAA letter of inquiry. Nor do I want to be “flagged” for extra attention, whether that is an unjustified flag or not, in “their” system.

Thank you for challenging me to truly dig into this. I suspect there are enough FAA/CBP/DHS/Nav-Canada (perhaps?) misinformed (?) agents out there on this topic to turn a five minute customs stop into a six month paper nightmare.

If I find a regulatory source, I will gladly post. And I will correct the “Customs” page procedures on http://fly2ak.com but in the meantime, I’m getting a cross-border transponder code.

Thanks for digging into it Ted. My Google-Fu is pretty good but I wasn't able to find anything specifically referenced either. I've made several trips through and never got a discrete code. The one time I got VFR flight following out of Moses Lake for Kelowna but after a while, the center controller said "I'm going to loose you in a bit, squawk 1200, you can contact Edmonton Center when you get closer to Kelowna if you want flight following in Canada". But VFR flight following in Canada isn't really a thing and they will be very confused when you call them. I don't want to publicly incriminate myself in the event that there actually is a reg somewhere requiring it, but TSA/Customs/FSS has never given me a code, or asked me if I had a transponder onboard and it's never been an issue.

On a side note, I agree that Whetstone is a great place, probably my favorite stop to clear customs, but the prevailing winds have always made for a sporty crosswind there.

After 9/11, there was a NOTAM requiring one to be "talking and squawking" when crossing the US border in either direction. That is, you had to be squawking a discrete transponder code and talking to ATC. This NOTAM was around for many years and, as far as I know, that's where the requirement originally came from. The fact that there's a procedure for getting special permission if you want to cross the border in a plane without a transponder suggests that the requirement still exists but I can no longer find evidence of that NOTAM and don't know where else the rule might live.

In the AIM 5-6-5 a. 2 the requirements are fairly clear. Transponder required and squawk ATC assigned code. I read that as squawk 1200 if vfr. If I launch from lynden, Wa. For Alaska via the coast route and stay below the Vancouver controlled air space no contact is required with ATC. Also above the 54th parallel N. AIM clearly says just squawk 1200 if you have a transponder. Crossing at “low” altitudes in a remote area will a transponder signal even be received by ATC?

When we crossed at Dorthy Scott to Penticton in 2017, we were issued a transponder code…despite being low enough that there was no radio contact or radar coverage. Nonetheless, we were on a discreet code.

It’s been a few years and I’ve not kept up on this…so just to clarify. No ADS-B requirement? Online I see that the Navcanada site says the mandates will start being implemented later this year for high altitude, and eventually getting down to our level in 2026. We are thinking about another trip in early June so I’m starting to get my ducks in a row.

10-15 years ago I used to fly a fair bit along the Canadian border at low levels, mostly Minnesota, some further west. Much (probably most) of it where ATC didn't have radar contact. It was amazing how often the transponder was being interogated!

Thank you "redbird" for your reference to AIM 5-6-5 paragraph a.2. Here's a link to the AIM page https://faraim.org/faa/aim/book/page_447.html and an image of the noted paragraph (below).

I was going to call Flight Service and talk to whomever, but after reading the below paragraph, it, to me, seems like a "catch-all" for someone at DHS/FAA to refer to if they wanted to justify some (maybe unjustifiable on paper) action. The words "ATC assigned" seem to be open to someone's arbitrary interpretation.

As I stated above, I don't want to be a "test case" for whether a discrete (vs 1200) transponder code is required. It is simple to call on the phone ahead of time, or if cell coverage is available in the air, call while flying, and get a code. Simpler still, when able, to cross the border at a true border strip (e.g. Whetstone, Porthill, Coutts, ...) where neither a flight plan nor transponder are required.