I could not find the thread I was looking for, so made this one, This looks promising!!
Tiny and $1300 bucks??
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/august/03/new-ads-b-transceiver-is-smallest

Not TSO'ed...

Mountain Doctor wrote:Not TSO'ed...

Give them a little time, very forward looking small company!! Might make everyone else take notice!!
So just a question??
I have more than 1 aircraft. If I have this with my FF on my Ipad, and my Strata all hooked together can I move it form one to another??

ADS-B "in" devices can be moved from airplane to airplane, but as I understand it the ADS-B "out" units will each transmit a code which will be linked to a specific tail number. So each airplane will need it's own specific unit.

hotrod180 wrote:ADS-B devices can be moved from airplane to airplane, but as I understand it the ADSB-out units will each transmit a code which will be linked to a specific tail number. So each airplane will need it's own specific unit.

Correct. You'd have to reprogram it each time you move it, and it would have to be correctly "permanently" installed by an appropriately rated technician, to make sure that it met the necessary ADS-B Out requirements. So it wouldn't be like picking up your iPad and moving it into another airplane.

Cary

M6RV6 wrote:I could not find the thread I was looking for, so made this one, This looks promising!!
Tiny and $1300 bucks??
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/august/03/new-ads-b-transceiver-is-smallest

Nice find, thanks. I wouldn't be surprised to see these get smaller and cheaper. It won't come from the aviation avionics industry, they are used to being able to sell everything at premium prices, and in fairness to them the market is small. However the burgeoning UAV industry is another matter. They potentially have millions upon millions of customers, those customers will require lightweight and inexpensive. As we get closer and closer to 2020 the units will get smaller and especially lighter and less expensive. If the FAA holds the line of not allowing units to be transferred between aircraft then they are setting the stage for an outlaw culture, however small it may or may not be - IMHO anyway. Get out the popcorn, ought to get interesting.

Barnstormer wrote:

M6RV6 wrote:I could not find the thread I was looking for, so made this one, This looks promising!!
Tiny and $1300 bucks??
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/august/03/new-ads-b-transceiver-is-smallest

Nice find, thanks. I wouldn't be surprised to see these get smaller and cheaper. It won't come from the aviation avionics industry, they are used to being able to sell everything at premium prices, and in fairness to them the market is small. However the burgeoning UAV industry is another matter. They potentially have millions upon millions of customers, those customers will require lightweight and inexpensive. As we get closer and closer to 2020 the units will get smaller and especially lighter and less expensive. If the FAA holds the line of not allowing units to be transferred between aircraft then they are setting the stage for an outlaw culture, however small it may or may not be - IMHO anyway. Get out the popcorn, ought to get interesting.

OUTLAW CULTURE?? Not anyone on this forum!!

hotrod180 wrote:ADS-B "in" devices can be moved from airplane to airplane, but as I understand it the ADS-B "out" units will each transmit a code which will be linked to a specific tail number. So each airplane will need it's own specific unit.

I found this interesting tidbit on the Navworx website,
http://www.navworx.com/navworx_store/Ce ... 600_B.html

"AutoStealth(tm) Mode:
The UAT technology is the only ADS-B equipment that will allow for privacy. Normally, ADS-B devices transmit the aircrafts ICAO number, a unique code that is assigned by the FAA to each aircraft. When flying VFR however, there is no need to let the FAA know who you are. The ADS600-EXP randomizes the ICAO whenever the squawk code is set to 1200. In addition, the N-Number of the aircraft configured is changed to "N0", an unassigned N-Number"

hotrod180 wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:ADS-B "in" devices can be moved from airplane to airplane, but as I understand it the ADS-B "out" units will each transmit a code which will be linked to a specific tail number. So each airplane will need it's own specific unit.

I found this interesting tidbit on the Navworx website,
http://www.navworx.com/navworx_store/Ce ... 600_B.html

"AutoStealth(tm) Mode:
The UAT technology is the only ADS-B equipment that will allow for privacy. Normally, ADS-B devices transmit the aircrafts ICAO number, a unique code that is assigned by the FAA to each aircraft. When flying VFR however, there is no need to let the FAA know who you are. The ADS600-EXP randomizes the ICAO whenever the squawk code is set to 1200. In addition, the N-Number of the aircraft configured is changed to "N0", an unassigned N-Number"

\

Very interesting, amazing what you learn around here!! They must have been listening when Phil was talking about outlaws!!

hotrod180 wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:ADS-B "in" devices can be moved from airplane to airplane, but as I understand it the ADS-B "out" units will each transmit a code which will be linked to a specific tail number. So each airplane will need it's own specific unit.

I found this interesting tidbit on the Navworx website,
http://www.navworx.com/navworx_store/Ce ... 600_B.html

"AutoStealth(tm) Mode:
The UAT technology is the only ADS-B equipment that will allow for privacy. Normally, ADS-B devices transmit the aircrafts ICAO number, a unique code that is assigned by the FAA to each aircraft. When flying VFR however, there is no need to let the FAA know who you are. The ADS600-EXP randomizes the ICAO whenever the squawk code is set to 1200. In addition, the N-Number of the aircraft configured is changed to "N0", an unassigned N-Number"

I have the EXP unit, and it works awesome. The Autostealth mode is great...but you still have to be squawking 1200. Turns out if you turn off the transponder and the Navworx sees the aircraft moving from GPS position, it will squawk your ICAO as well as the fact that your mode 3A/C has failed and it isn't receiving. That was a lesson learned. Put in a dedicated toggle to the ADSB unit so you can turn it off when times arise.

Timberwolf wrote:Put in a dedicated toggle to the ADSB unit so you can turn it off when times arise.

Just be aware that one of the other provisions in the ADS-B rules is that you are not allowed to turn it off or disable it in flight, if it's installed. This according to a seminar I attended at OSH, and confirmed by my avionics guy. He says he cannot legally install one with a switch to disable it. So being a "creative" guy, I asked if it was OK to use a dedicated circuit breaker (pull type) for that device. Apparently, that is perfectly legal... More than one way to skin a cat...

I believe it's like a transponder, that if it is installed and operational you are supposed to use it while in controlled airspace (aka anything outside of class G). In my case my transponder seems to act up all the time so it sure is handy having an inop placard that fits perfectly over the transponder and is very useful for those times it acts wonky. Since my ADSB gets it's mode A/C from the transponder through a Transmon, it also is rendered inop. What a pity.

Big brother is trying to do everything they can to be able to trace your route if they so desired. If they are coming after me for an inop transponder I guess that means they literally have nothing better to do.

Why would anyone want to turn off their transponder/ADS-B Out? Drug runners? Escape the Blackhawk after busting a presidential TFR? Fly through a restricted area? All that's silly.

A story: some years ago I had a defuglement with the FAA and had to meet with their Inspectors at the FSDO in Denver--details are unimportant. In the process, they thanked me for my contriteness and offered a slight slap on the hand, that I get some retraining with my own instructor, which I readily accepted.

During our discussion, they described a pilot who wasn't given such an offer. Here's what he did: he mistakenly landed at KDEN (Denver International) instead of KFTG (Front Range), which are about 7 miles apart and oriented pretty much the same, although of course KDEN is mucho bigger. He was talking with KFTG tower, got clearance to land there, but landed instead at KDEN. When he realized his mistake, he immediately shut off his transponder, took off again, and flew very low to a small airstrip in northeast Colorado, where he was greeted by the local Sheriff, who held him until the FAA Inspectors could arrive. He had been tracked using primary radar, which happened to go low enough to keep him pretty much in sight the entire way. The long and the short of their interaction was a certificate action in which his certificate was suspended for a year, citing various violations, not the least of which was landing and taking off without a clearance. Since he was an airline pilot, that stopped his income for the year, a pretty stiff ancillary penalty.

One of the Inspectors said that he would have been given the same offer they gave me, if upon landing he would have taxied off the runway, admitted his mistake to ground control, and received clearance to taxi back and depart with a take-off clearance to fly to KFTG, presuming that he showed the same mea culpa that I had.

So while ADS-B Out may provide additional information to ATC, the ability to track an errant pilot still exists without it. If a pilot is not breaking the rules, what's the difference? If the pilot is breaking the rules, either inadvertently or purposely, turning off the equipment isn't going to save him, and if he does that, he multiplies the violations and reduces his chances of favorable treatment by the FAA.

Cary

I mostly prefer to turn it off because I enjoy flying low out over the bay where there aren't any vessels and it's perfectly legal, yet it isn't something the controllers are used to seeing on their scopes. Instead of concerning them and to avoid having a controller who is unfamiliar with regs, it is just easier to not squawk and never show up on the radar to start with. But the bigger fact is it's none of the governments business where I fly my personal aircraft. I'm glad Navworx anonymizes the ICAO when squawking 1200.

A close friend is an ex navy guy who flew his maule back and forth on weekends between his soon to be retirement home and his duty station. One of his fuel stops was in TN. At the time, TN had a tax on the books where they could tax a vehicle passing through their state be it an RV or aircraft. He was one of the unlucky out of staters who got rammed with such a tax. Long story short it ended up costing him dearly for a state of which he has no residence. If they can't track ya, they can't tax ya. They have since stopped this practice, but as I understand it Tax law plays by a whole different set of rules.

Timberwolf wrote:I mostly prefer to turn it off because I enjoy flying low out over the bay where there aren't any vessels and it's perfectly legal, yet it isn't something the controllers are used to seeing on their scopes. Instead of concerning them and to avoid having a controller who is unfamiliar with regs, it is just easier to not squawk and never show up on the radar to start with. But the bigger fact is it's none of the governments business where I fly my personal aircraft. I'm glad Navworx anonymizes the ICAO when squawking 1200.

<snip>

The problem is that the regulations require that if your airplane is equipped with a transponder, that you are to keep your transponder turned on, and if you have ADS-B Out, that it be turned on, also, whenever you're operating the airplane in anything but uncontrolled airspace. So yeah, it is the government's business where you fly. Sorry--I didn't write the regs, but that's what they say. See FAR 91.215 for transponder operation and 91.225 for ADS-B Out operation.

And like I said earlier, turning off the transponder doesn't eliminate the primary target your airplane paints on ATC's radar. If they can see you with the transponder on, they can also see you with it off.

So the upshot of that is that if you're caught not turning on your transponder/ADS-B Out when you should have, that's a violation. Intentional violations aren't treated very kindly, even under this new kinder/gentler FAA enforcement process that is presently being used.

Cary

They can't track ya if you wear one of these. Fits right under your headset.Don't forget one each for your pax.

Cary wrote:Why would anyone want to turn off their transponder/ADS-B Out? Drug runners? Escape the Blackhawk after busting a presidential TFR? Fly through a restricted area? All that's silly.

Because anyone (including noise complainer, nut-job Kim Gibbs) can look up a transponder track on webtrak, get your N number from the ICAO code, look up your name and address from the aircraft registry, and then drive to the airport to harass you and publish everything on the internet like she did here:

http://www.freerangelongmont.com/2012/06/05/reckless-helicopter/

It's time the FAA (with prodding from AOPA/EAA) got our personal info off of public website. I can't look up car license plates on the net, neither should I be able to look up N numbers.

Ace007 wrote:

Cary wrote:Why would anyone want to turn off their transponder/ADS-B Out? Drug runners? Escape the Blackhawk after busting a presidential TFR? Fly through a restricted area? All that's silly.

Because anyone (including noise complainer, nut-job Kim Gibbs) can look up a transponder track on webtrak, get your N number from the ICAO code, look up your name and address from the aircraft registry, and then drive to the airport to harass you and publish everything on the internet like she did here:

http://www.freerangelongmont.com/2012/06/05/reckless-helicopter/

It's time the FAA (with prodding from AOPA/EAA) got our personal info off of public website. I can't look up car license plates on the net, neither should I be able to look up N numbers.

That's a different issue, I think. Yeah, our info is all public (well, much of it anyway), whereas your average Joe has no access to automobile registration or drivers license info. That opens up our activities to much more public scrutiny than if we were driving our high lift diesel pickups erratically, blowing noxious smoke, etc.

The other part of this, though, is that Kim Gibbs is the same noodle who sued Mile Hi Skydiving, lost royally (including having to pay the attorneys fees of the Defendants, something in excess of $45,000 if I recall correctly). Then she appealed to the Colorado Court of Appeals. Appeals take quite awhile before the appellate court will rule, so that hasn't happened yet. My take, FWIW, is that the District Judge's ruling was well written and correct, but I'm not the appellate court. So we'll have to wait to see what they say.

Cary

Ace007 wrote:

Cary wrote:Why would anyone want to turn off their transponder/ADS-B Out? Drug runners? Escape the Blackhawk after busting a presidential TFR? Fly through a restricted area? All that's silly.

Because anyone (including noise complainer, nut-job Kim Gibbs) can look up a transponder track on webtrak, get your N number from the ICAO code, look up your name and address from the aircraft registry, and then drive to the airport to harass you and publish everything on the internet like she did here:

http://www.freerangelongmont.com/2012/06/05/reckless-helicopter/

It's time the FAA (with prodding from AOPA/EAA) got our personal info off of public website. I can't look up car license plates on the net, neither should I be able to look up N numbers.

Just FWIW, if we knowingly violate the FARs that require us to operate transponder and AD/S-B it is not only a 'gotcha' for the folks who complain, it eliminates any defense we might have about flying responsibly with the law, AND it raises questions that can be used by these people against GA as a whole. We can bet they'll beat this drum: "What possible legitimacy can GA have if "lots of these pilots" want to evade identification??"

"And like I said earlier, turning off the transponder doesn't eliminate the primary target your airplane paints on ATC's radar. If they can see you with the transponder on, they can also see you with it off."

Not hardly. That may be the case in the area you stated but that certainly is not the case everywhere.