I have some questions about operating my 185 after my Aerocet amphibs are installed.

I worry about trying to taxi onto a sand, or pebble beach, and getting stuck. If I taxi into shallow water wheels down, and still have enough water to float when my wheels start to touch bottom and begin to sink, can I change my mind, and retract the wheels while there's a bit of weight on them?

Now take that question to the extreme. What if I were stopped on land and the wheels were inadvertently retracted? What would be the consequences?

What if I beached the airplane with wheels retracted and couldn't get back off? Could the wheels be extended? Would they lift the airplane, or would damage result?

I wonder about leaving the airplane sitting in shallow water, wheels down so the floats don't hit bottom. Any wave action at all and the wheels will work their way into the sand or gravel over time and I'll be stuck?

Why would anybody with a nice set of composite floats contemplate such abusive actions? Doubt I'll try any of this on purpose, but good to know just in case the unthinkable happens. I like the idea of landing and taxiing in and out of the water, but really fear getting stuck, and am trying to imagine how I'd extract myself.

I'm also going to be at a cabin on a remote lake with a less than ideal gravel beech angle, no dock, and no buoy. Can I put my wheels down to guard against gravel rash, and leave it like that for a few days? What provisions can I install with not much more than a chainsaw that won't disappear every spring when the ice goes out with the wind?

Many of these scenarios you outline are pretty harsh for a set of 80k composite floats, I don't think you'll like the results leaving them on a gravel beach.

There isn't enough power in the retract system to extend the gear and lift the plane while the floats are sitting on the ground, in fact, I would be surprised if there is enough power to overcome the down locks and retract the gear when the aircraft's weight is on it.

It's pretty unlikely that you'll inadvertently retract the gear on land anyways, you're going to be very paranoid around that gear handle.

If you leave the plane in shallow water with the gear down on a loose beach it will work its way down and get stuck. Now you're stuck AND you've got sand jammed into your super expensive gear mechanism.

You failed to mention the thing you should be most worried about, inadvertently trying to land on the water with the gear down, that's a real bummer! GUMP is your friend...

Aren't amphibs fun!?!


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This has nothing to do with your question, but have you taken any egress training? If not, now would be an excellent time to think about doing it, before you get to try those new amphibs out. Brian Webster bases out of the west side and does a good job of training, I assume there may be others doing that in your general area.

I have run straight Aerocets for 9 years with no problems, they were a good purchase.

I'll be watching this thread with interest. My plane came with EDO 2790s but I'm not float certified. Lots to learn. I drool over the Aerocets, but figure I can do a lot of learning with cheap floats before I wander down that path.

This is a bit of drift, but the right audience-- has anybody experimented with hydrophobic coatings on their floats? They are supposed to significantly reduce surface tension, increasing speed and gas mileage when applied to boat hulls. I'm curious if anybody has tried them for float planes?

These are all great questions for Tom Hamilton. He owns the company and is one smart fellow. Tom has probably tested everything you ask about. See what he has to say and report back.

Halestorm. Yes. I have contemplated the gear down water landing scenario. I can't promise that I won't make that mistake. If I convince myself that it won't happen to me, it will. I have to remind myself that it could easily happen to me, and be constantly vigilant. I'm very self aware, and this outlook is what will keep me safe and alive.

Steve. I did take the egress training with Bryan Webster and his wife. I recommend it. Son in law took it with me. I'm after the rest of the family to go.

albravo. Watch those 2790s. My airplane had them when new. At 60 hours TTSN it sank while tied to a dock in Manitoba. The control cables are routed internally, and not perfectly sealed. Water can leak in, and can also migrate from compartment to compartment. Apparently it has to do with which way the wind and waves hit them. I've see the hydrophobic coating proposed, but Haven't heard any reviews.

G44. Yes. I'll definitely seek some more councilling from the good folks at Aerocet. BTW. I was present in the tent at the Alaska Airmens show last year for your dad and uncles presentation. I really appreciated that he shared some of his stories. A skilled, yet humble man.

Thanks everyone for the replies. More conversation is certainly welcome. The possible scenarios are endless with amphibs, and each circumstance I face will require good judgement. We can't cover it all, but just maybe I'll be faced with a decision, and someone else's experience can be applied.

I wish I would have met you! Bummer...

First, on taxiing an amphibious up onto a beach: Unless it says Grumman on the airworthiness certificate AND you know the beaches in the area really well, DON'T!!

There are just too many ways to screw that pooch! Getting stuck is one issue, no doubt. The bigger issue is how you get unstuck, Without damaging something VERY expensive in the process.

When I first started running amphibious floats, I taxied up on a few beaches till I got stuck, dropped one main into a soft spot.....and pointed uphill.

Fortunately, it was nearly low tide, and in Kodiak, which has some of the biggest tides in the world, so the problem was resolved by waiting a few hours for a high enough tide to float the plane.

One of the problems with amphibious floats in this regard is those itsy bits tires. Zero floatation.

And as noted previously, there's a lot of hardware in those floats that can break if mis treated.

As to trying to retract the wheels while there is any weight on them, I sincerely hope you can't.....that's what squat switches are for. Same goes for trying to "lift" the plane with the gear....very bad idea. Bear in mind that the manufacturers build those systems to do the intended job, but not much more. Every extra bit of muscle in that gear system adds a lot of weight, and weight is the bane of these floats. I flew a plane with one early set of amphibs which didn't have quite enough ooomph, and had gear in transit landings more than once. The manufacturer fixed that problem by adding more poop to the system.

So, treat that amphib as a wheelplane when on land and as a floatplane when on water, with one exception: Boat ramps. You can taxi up and down boat ramps, but be careful there. The ramps can be slick as deer guts on a doorknob, and if you slide off the edge of one.......

Also, taxi up a ramp and you're now generally in a parking lot, with cars and people just waiting to make contact with a spinning propeller. Be careful.

For parking on water, build a ramp out of wood, that the plane can slide up onto. Anchor one end on shore, or anchor it securely in shallow water(easier said than done). Make the ramp plenty big, and you'll be able to ramp the plane even in a crosswind....carry a bit of speed onto the ramp to "stick it". Either leave it parked nose in, or get out, slide it back into the water, then heel the floats up onto the ramp backwards. Tie it down to the ramp, trees, anchors on shore or??

Ramps are wonderful and easy to make out of lumber or even small trees.

As to landing in water with the gear down, you have a good attitude....you CAN do it, we all have that capability. If you ever get to the point where you're not paranoid about that gear....stop and reset your thinking.

Send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward a copy of an article from Water Flying I wrote a while back on that called "Gear Down for a Water Landing?". Too long to post here.

MTV

Yep, what Mike said,

Or maybe if is says Republic, like in Seabee. Had pretty good luck on beaches with mine, only got stuck a couple of times, and it was a bit** getting unstuck.

Also agree on ramps, very slick at times. Slid down a ramp on the Fraser river, slid fast, could not stop. It had a drop off at the end under the water, hit the tail of the floats on the concrete, luckily, very luckily, no damage.

sburg58 wrote:Yep, what Mike said,

Or maybe if is says Republic, like in Seabee. Had pretty good luck on beaches with mine, only got stuck a couple of times, and it was a bit** getting unstuck.

Also agree on ramps, very slick at times. Slid down a ramp on the Fraser river, slid fast, could not stop. It had a drop off at the end under the water, hit the tail of the floats on the concrete, luckily, very luckily, no damage.

That's a point--an observation from last year's "First Colorado Seaplane Splash-in": the turbine Beaver on amphibs had gone in and out several times, each time taxiing up onto the shore via the packed gravel boat ramp. He had the rudders down as he taxied on the water (of course) and then he would retract them once he was up in the parking area. When he would taxi down the ramp into the water, the rudders were up, and he would put them down after the airplane was floating. But he forgot to retract them once, and when he taxied down the ramp into the water with the rudders down, there was some damage when the airplane leveled out in the water and the rudders hit the ramp.

Cary

I had Aerocet amphib's on a 182 for a few years. Ramping the plane was fun and safe for leaving it, but there are very, very few places where its possible especially on the east coast. Boat ramps have wing obstructions almost always in tidal water anyhow. Twice I was in a busy parking lot with kids and cars, nobody gives you ample room for safety.



Those tiny tires are not going to support you on any beach I've ever seen. I was always of the opinion the floats are better bumping the bottom than the gear will be in a mooring or beaching it situation.

I left mine floating with two anchors and a mooring line so it could swing with the wind. It worked well but the water was 80 degrees so the swim to shore was nice. When I knew the wind was consistent I left it beached for an overnight sometimes. If your going very slow or letting it sit the typical beachy gravel never hurt or even marked my floats.

Have fun with it!!

mtv wrote:
Send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward a copy of an article from Water Flying I wrote a while back on that called "Gear Down for a Water Landing?". Too long to post here.

MTV

Mike,
Is it possible to post a link or maybe a copy in the pilot knowledge section? I think there are many members on here that would like to read the article. I haven't flown floats in a couple of years but know that it is a continual learning experience since there are rarely two landings a like. Always good to learn more and keep things fresh with a review of procedures, etc.