ADSB shows this plane taking off from Crest just a few miles away and going directly to the lake, maybe 5 minutes in the air. Low ceilings, rain, wind. I’ll go ahead and postulate the pilot was distracted and never raised the gear.

Positive rate, gear up! Every time people, even if you’re staying in the pattern.

Way better to land gear up on the runway than gear down on the water. We get reminded of this in the PNW far too often.

Soo the locals assisted the “first responders”? Seems the other way around to me


Reminds me of this



At southern seaplanes (highly recommend) we went up in a 206 amphib, over the canals, asks to set up for slow flight, dirty, gives me some turns, etc, then grabs the throttle and says your engine failed, I immediately swing the gear up and as I’m pitching and cleaning up for best glide he says “you can have your engine back or land, I’ve seen all I needed”

Was just a test that I brought the gear up when juggling a few things

They also have access to dunk tank training


If ya got the money for a amphib zero excuse not to do their course IMO
And have a hook knife secured somewhere it can be made ready

A friend lives on that lake, as does the pilot, apparently. The story is, he just got the amphibious floats..... With all these gear down on water incidents, I'm betting soon it'll cost more than a set of amphibious floats to insure one of these things for a year......and those floats, even the little ones, are NOT cheap.

MTV

mtv wrote:A friend lives on that lake, as does the pilot, apparently. The story is, he just got the amphibious floats..... With all these gear down on water incidents, I'm betting soon it'll cost more than a set of amphibious floats to insure one of these things for a year......and those floats, even the little ones, are NOT cheap.

MTV

Thankfully in a free country insurance is a product and not a requirement


I go back and forth on when I insure or when I don’t

For someone with big bucks, like new amphib aerocets for a low time pilot bucks, jacking up MY rates won’t change anything, I’ll just stop buying their insurance and keep safely doing me, low time rich guy will just stroke a check and flip it

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:A friend lives on that lake, as does the pilot, apparently. The story is, he just got the amphibious floats..... With all these gear down on water incidents, I'm betting soon it'll cost more than a set of amphibious floats to insure one of these things for a year......and those floats, even the little ones, are NOT cheap.

MTV

Thankfully in a free country insurance is a product and not a requirement


I go back and forth on when I insure or when I don’t

For someone with big bucks, like new amphib aerocets for a low time pilot bucks, jacking up MY rates won’t change anything, I’ll just stop buying their insurance and keep safely doing me, low time rich guy will just stroke a check and flip it

That may work, till the insurance industry decides they aren't going to cover liability either.... You may or may not be old enough to recall what happened to the Lake Amphibian. Almost put the company out of business.

MTV

mtv wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:A friend lives on that lake, as does the pilot, apparently. The story is, he just got the amphibious floats..... With all these gear down on water incidents, I'm betting soon it'll cost more than a set of amphibious floats to insure one of these things for a year......and those floats, even the little ones, are NOT cheap.

MTV

Thankfully in a free country insurance is a product and not a requirement


I go back and forth on when I insure or when I don’t

For someone with big bucks, like new amphib aerocets for a low time pilot bucks, jacking up MY rates won’t change anything, I’ll just stop buying their insurance and keep safely doing me, low time rich guy will just stroke a check and flip it

That may work, till the insurance industry decides they aren't going to cover liability either.... You may or may not be old enough to recall what happened to the Lake Amphibian. Almost put the company out of business.

MTV

Hmm, not sure I know about the lake amphib in question, do you have a link?
Thanks

Moved up to amphib a couple years ago, My EI has an annunciator that comes one when speed gets below 85kts. Won't shut up till you acknowledge button.

Handy.

Thousands of hours professionally on amphibs, haven't sunk one yet. Come close a few times. But still pay attention to every one that does and try to learn from it.
Flew a Beaver on amphib Wips the other day - it had that 85mph light/audio switch. I also look close at not only the up/down lights but also at the pump lights.
Insurance is going to kill GA, especially with an attitude that when I screw up they'll just buy me another airplane.

Last season on amphibs for me. Lots of time so insurance is not too bad for me. 1500 A Baumann fo it’s all mechanical but you can still forget. Got “check gear” tags all over. Being over 80 the insurance company wants a yearly check ride. That’s no problem but ran out of places to go on floats so just sticking to wheels and wheel skis. Just have liability only anyway.

Jim

Lots of airplay on this accident on the Seattle tv news,
with "NTSB will be investigating the cause"....
usually superimposed on a pic of the upside-down floats with the wheels sticking up.

Out loud every time ……………….. “Wheels up landing in the water” , or “Wheels down landing on the runway” ……. When taking off the runway , wheels up when no runway left no matter what .

I like mirrors on my struts. I look where I plan to land then look in the mirrors to see where the gear is set. If the two views (landing zone view and gear position view) are appropriately matched, then I know the gear is set properly. If one was to just look at the landing gear indicator lights, it is easy for dyslexia to rear its ugly head.

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:

mtv wrote:A friend lives on that lake, as does the pilot, apparently. The story is, he just got the amphibious floats..... With all these gear down on water incidents, I'm betting soon it'll cost more than a set of amphibious floats to insure one of these things for a year......and those floats, even the little ones, are NOT cheap.

MTV

Thankfully in a free country insurance is a product and not a requirement


I go back and forth on when I insure or when I don’t

For someone with big bucks, like new amphib aerocets for a low time pilot bucks, jacking up MY rates won’t change anything, I’ll just stop buying their insurance and keep safely doing me, low time rich guy will just stroke a check and flip it

That may work, till the insurance industry decides they aren't going to cover liability either.... You may or may not be old enough to recall what happened to the Lake Amphibian. Almost put the company out of business.

MTV

Hmm, not sure I know about the lake amphib in question, do you have a link?
Thanks

No link, but at one point, due to some of the characteristics/peculiarities of the airplane, ALL insurance companies simply said "NO" to any request to insure them. Armand Rivard, the owner of the Lake Aircraft Company went to one underwriter, proposed a training curriculum that the insurance company would insure after, and that curriculum became mandatory to get insurance in a Lake.

That had little if anything to do with landing gear position, though, but it's a valid example of how the insurance industry can and does regulate aviation.

MTV

I do not have seaplane rating. Might be getting one this Fall just for fun. I do have a fair amount of retract time and have never come close to landing gear up in a complex aircraft. I sort of feel I need the gear to come down to slow down. I am sure it different on Amphibs/floats but the consequences are much higher landing gear down for amphibs on water. I never want to say that something couldn't happen to me because we all make errors. With that said - it just seems like it would be part of the flow and a possibly a triple check item list. Possibly on each turn in the pattern to confirm both with green lights, and visually by looking and with mirrors if needed. These accidents seem way too common. I did get a quote from insurance agent about 6 years ago to insure a new seaplane pilot for a C185 with a 300K hull on Amphibs. This is with at the time about 2500 TT and commercial/instrument/CFII/MEI ratings. It was 9600 dollars per year. I was thinking about selling the 180 and buying a 185 at the time. It was cheaper on straight floats but I decided to keep my C180 and just be committed to landing on land.


Josh

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... he%20shore


Unfortunately, it didn't end well for the pilot, Alan Williams.

If it’s the same guy from Kent, he seemed a experienced professional pilot, no idea how much amphib time he had however

Ether way BSBD

Halestorm wrote:
Positive rate, gear up! Every time people, even if you’re staying in the pattern.

.

Halestorm said it best in the second post and it bears repeating.

An amphib pilot should feel very uncomfortable whenever the gear is down.

Dog is my Copilot wrote:I do not have seaplane rating. Might be getting one this Fall just for fun. I do have a fair amount of retract time and have never come close to landing gear up in a complex aircraft. I sort of feel I need the gear to come down to slow down. I am sure it different on Amphibs/floats but the consequences are much higher landing gear down for amphibs on water. I never want to say that something couldn't happen to me because we all make errors. With that said - it just seems like it would be part of the flow and a possibly a triple check item list. Possibly on each turn in the pattern to confirm both with green lights, and visually by looking and with mirrors if needed. These accidents seem way too common. I did get a quote from insurance agent about 6 years ago to insure a new seaplane pilot for a C185 with a 300K hull on Amphibs. This is with at the time about 2500 TT and commercial/instrument/CFII/MEI ratings. It was 9600 dollars per year. I was thinking about selling the 180 and buying a 185 at the time. It was cheaper on straight floats but I decided to keep my C180 and just be committed to landing on land.


Josh

Frankly, that first point you made MAY be part of the issue with a lot of these accidents, particularly if the pilot is a high time folding wheels type.......what position is the gear in EVERY time you land one of THOSE?? Down, of course. A dear old friend who is no longer with us was a very high time senior 777 captain. He bought a SeaBee, and on one of his first water landings, he landed gear down in the water. He told me later, there were distractions, and what position MUST the gear be in.....from his primary experience? My understanding was the gent in this accident was a very experienced corporate pilot.

I guarantee you that it is far easier than most pilots think to get distracted enough to make this mistake. Anything you can do to help minimize this risk is good. But, the bottom line is, I KNOW I have the capability of doing what this gentleman did. That generates a healthy paranoia when I get in an amphibian.

Unfortunately, the pilot and owner of this airplane passed away in the hospital. May he rest in peace.

MTV

^^^^^^^ What Mike said ^^^^^^^

Every time I flew an amphib I too was half paranoid about the gear position. In the Widgeon I had mirrors on the wing floats as well as a small window inside the airplane over the wheel well where I could see the brightly red painted uplocks. So, I had all the ways to confirm gear position but you had to still pick “gear up” or “gear down”, it may sound simple but distractions or what ever inside or outside influence on your brain can make it a disaster waiting to happen. Distractions and complacency are two very big enemy’s to safe operation of an airplane or any piece of equipment.

Kurt