Backcountry Pilot • An affordable high mountain airplane?

An affordable high mountain airplane?

Technical and practical discussion about specific aircraft types such as Cessna 180, Maule M7, et al. Please read and search carefully before posting, as many popular topics have already been discussed.
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

hotrod150 wrote:
Yup, N140JH, that's the one. A few years after I read that article, I met his son-in-law Kelly who at that time owned a lightened-up fat-tired C170B. He helped me get a field approval for a C185 jump seat in the back of my old 170.
Rob, I think you've posted that last photo of your dad's airplane before. Where is that-- on the Columbia somewhere? Looks like a cool spot.


I know Kelly, we actually flew out to Idaho to meet up with him in Priest River. His father-in-law happened to come stop by in the 140 and we all flew out to Sullivan Lake and then Cavanaugh Bay.

Here's Kelly's 170, I believe it now belongs to someone in South Dakota who posts here on BCP
Image

About the 120 picture, yeah that's on the Columbia. Martin Island I believe.
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

When I flew to Priest River to meet up with Kelly so he could do my 337 paperwork, we flew up the Clark Fork River to Noxon MT for lunch. Landed on the old railroad grade there-- that's pretty much what passes for a town airport. There's a windsock on top of the adjacent tavern.
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

Stinsons are available w/ 165HP(stock) and are reasonably priced($13,000.-$32,000.), fabrick covered, if one needs a 4 place plane. Some come w/ higher HP(STC) and of course, higher fuel consumption. Not high speed planes, but for flying around locally, they are great back country, reasonable altitude planes, very forgiving taildraggers.
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

most likely you will not get much of an example below 20 or 25.

They came with both 150 hp and 165 hp depending on the year and variant. The 165 came in both a "light case" and "heavy case". Not all were changed, be careful. The 165 is a nice engine, but you do want the heavy case.

the 108, -1 and -2 had smaller tanks in the wings. Some people have put the -3 wing on a 1 or 2, with out the paper work it is not legal to have 50 gallon tanks. When the 150 was changed to a 165 it was a requirement to put ins 1/2 inch fuel line and a rudder bungee. Many were done with out the proper changes in these areas, also not legal.

These are great plans, make sure you know what you are looking at. It is not hard nor all that expensive to make the proper changes to make this legal, just make sure the price reflects what you would have to do.

Eddie built a grand airplane, there are many left, they are strong and worthy planes.

Just go in knowing what you are looking at. There are many great informational pages on the stinson and folk who know a lot. Larry Weston is one of the best and a very nice person. Little red arrow and hangar 9 have a lot of information as well.

If you would like more information PM me.
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

Thanks again for providing all of this information, everyone. It's great to hear all of these perspectives on different aircraft!

I had the opportunity to stop by the Rocky Mountain Light Sport Aircraft Expo out at KFTG yesterday. It wasn't the largest gathering of planes in the world, but I still got the opportunity to take a look at a couple of planes that were really interesting to me, and talked to some nice folks out there.

A gentleman named Roger was out there with a nice Just Aircraft Highlander that he recently built, and I was happy to finally see one of these in person (he built it with the Rotax 914, which I imagine will provide him with a great performance envelope out here in the Rockies). I also talked to some folks from "Backcountry Aviation, LLC": Bob showed me his Maule, which looked in its element sitting on some BIG 35" bush tires, and he also talked to Amber about potentially arranging some aerial photography work for her company. Another gal with this group -- whose name I didn't have the chance to get -- was also there with a very nice example of a Carbon Cub, and she shared some nice backcountry airplane camping stories with us. Those folks have a link to this site on their website, so I imagine they're around here as well... It's possible I might have failed to connect a screen name with a real name.

It's never a bad day when you get a chance to hang out with some flying enthusiasts while looking at airplanes! The weather was moving in kind of quickly near the end of the expo, and everyone with an airplane seemed to bail out of there in a hurry (we drove our truck, so weather wasn't a factor for us). I will say that I was impressed with the exit performance from the Carbon Cub, which with the aid of some wind appeared to come off of the ground in about one airplane length on the way out of there. While the Carbon Cub is well above my price range for a first plane, it still doesn't hurt to admire them. The Maule also put on a very nice show on takeoff, especially considering how much larger it is when compared to the Cub. I'm guessing that Roger has his Highlander hangared at this airport, since I saw him taxi off to somewhere other than a runway.

In addition to scratching my aviation itch for an afternoon, I do think this experience was good for Amber, since she came home seeming much more interested in aviation than she was before... as all of you in relationships already know, this could prove to be a very good thing for my flying future :)

Anyway, if I talked to any of you out there yesterday and don't recognize your screen names around here, please do speak up!
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

coloradokevin wrote: As I mentioned previously I have no tailwheel experience, but a willingness to learn. Some of the posts in this thread make me wonder if I shouldn't avoid them entirely, but I'm intrigued by their reputation for being great rough country performers (at least when compared to their tricycle cousins).


Kevin, if you are gonna be doing the off-airport thing, I highly recommend going with a tailwheel. I came from a zero aviation background and was told to avoid tailwheel, even by my super cub intructor??? Long story short, I ignored their bias and bought my 180 n got the ticket in it. With hindsight, best decision I could have made for what I do, and after gaining a little experience, I'm willing to step out on a limb and say that taildraggers are the way to go for off-airport. Many pilots say a 182 will do 90+% of what a 180 will do, all I can say is that has not been my experience (observation), YMMV.

Good luck and hope you have more fun than you dreamed possible :D
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

The CC was only off in 1 length? Must've been taking off downwind. ;-)
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

soyAnarchisto wrote:The CC was only off in 1 length? Must've been taking off downwind. ;-)


Yeah, that darned thing was impressive to say the least. We were watching some fighter jets take off that had come into the airport, and were planning to go back to talk with the Maule/CC folks some more. They were taxiing out as we returned and I told Amber "watch this takeoff, it will probably be pretty darn short". She said it looked like a helicopter takeoff. Having spent a good bit of time in a Bell 407, I'd have to agree that the takeoff was more helicopter-like than airplane-like.

...now where'd I put that $200K I forgot about? Hmmm... I'll have to get looking for that (so far I've eliminated the sock drawer, and checked to make sure that I didn't leave it under my mattress) :wink:
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

This is a great thread!

I'm in the same situation as you. Looking for an affordable plane I can build experience in and take to the mountains.

I went to the Rans factory last week and flew the S6 and S7. I was very impressed, especially with the S7. It would be worth the trip to go check these planes out.

Good luck in your quest.
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

Well, it looks like you've got about all the advice you need, and at this late date you might have already taken the plunge. I'll use this post as a short test of whether or not there is continuing interest, and elaborate upon request.

I spent a few years "shopping." I finally got more serious this year, and spent a lot of time on-line, hoping somebody might offer to show me an airplane and maybe give me a bit of a ride. Didn't happen.

But I kept on a-truckin' and went through a lot of what you other shoppers are doing, but finally ended up buying a newly-almost-completed EAB STOL light sport category airplane, which will require me to fly the 40 hours of Phase I testing. The plane I bought was about number four on my list.

The first plane I tried to buy was a nice Kitfox-4 with a 100hp Rotax. The guy named his price and I agreed, but when I came back with the money, he backed out.

The second I tried to buy had actually become number one on my list, a Just Hilander with the 100hp Rotax. I negotiated this time, and we agreed on a price; I sent the down-payment check. The owner called a few days later and said "I've decided not to sell. Do you want me to tear up the check or send it back?" He was rough about it. Then I got a call from a dealer who specialized in that particular aircraft (with whom I had spoken earlier), and the dealer said that [he or she] could get the airplane for me, but it would cost me another ten grand. I declined.

So then I went on a long trip to see Highlander owners who were willing to show me their airplanes. The first one I visited told me about a CH 750 for sale up the road a fer piece, and I called the number he gave me. The man on the phone was very busy and I had almost decided not to look at it, as I had decided on the Highlander (rag and tailwheel and performance). But I decided to have a look at the 750 anyway, so I just drove to its location and hollered through the fence. Well, it turned out to be a beautiful piece of work and it had an IO-240 and a good, standard panel with enough room for a small tablet if I wanted a kinda-glass instrument later. So, I went for it. Reasons: Workmanship, workmanship, WORKMANSHIP. Power, power, POWER! New, new, NEW. The price was a bit above my upper end (which was about where your upper end was). Now, after some training by a master CFI, I'm gonna learn a lot, and become a test-pilot too--more or less. The paperwork, the dealing with the FAA, and a thousand other things that flesh is heir to, would have deterred me, had I known in advance, so I'm glad that I was ignorant of all that stuff. It is, and it's going to be, an adventure!

No, the plane's not my first choice. My first choice would be lighter weight, with lots of power (this one has enough), at a lower price. But maintenance is not likely to kill me, and the resale value is likely to hold up well, should I later find an ideal Rans or Highlander for the right price. And, the experience I've had with the people involved, unlike the first two, is priceless! (So watch out for people! There are not-so-good'uns and some exceptionally fine one out there in airplane-land.

As you've been advised, consider what you'll have to spend AFTER the "honeymoon." The operating cost, not to mention the cost of repairs is often hidden behind a low price. I think you're doing the right thing by being cautious and doing a lot of research. In my case, even though I didn't end up with the exact aircraft I thought I wanted, I have ended up with one that will get me in the air "affordably," and leave me with enough budget to fly at a cost competitive with my exploration ground vehicle. Now I gotta spend money on a trailer. And a tailwheel conversion.
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

I've just gotta throw it in there. A Murphy Rebel/Elite may suit your mission pretty well. I'm flying out of the Reno area with DA in the low 8's, often going up to Tahoe and into the mountains. I have the 125 hp, but there are a bunch with the O-320 making 160/150 HP, it would be a going machine. I can climb 500 ft/m up through 9k ft. Only consideration for Colorado would be wind, the plane does fine in the air but like any light / high lift plane you have to be careful of the ground ops. I'm experimenting with the gear for harder off field work, I hear its a little soft from the factory.

Otherwise its a great compromise, 700 lbs usable, side by side seating with a large cargo area. And best of all, you can snag one for 35k. Oh, did I mention I can cruise mine 100 mph on 3.8 gallons/hour? Gotta love it. 400 ft land/depart, I've marked it out in the lake beds here, really does it.
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

Just (no pun intended) thought I'd update y'all on my quest after 2.5 years. It's been quite a soap opera, much too long to include here. See my post from Sep. 10, 2013.

Just as I was starting the Phase 2 testing I came down with pneumonia and ended up in a hospital in a "strage land." The super-great guy who was helping the widow of the builder volunteered to do the flight-testing for me while I recovered. I finally got the airplane back over a year later. The drama continued, and I haven't been able to fly the 750 as much as I would like, but a lot of stuff happens when you're in your upper seventies. Just got back from a flight yesterday, and I continue to be amazed at the flying qualities.

Well, the Highlander owner who steered me to the 750 has since become a great friend. (He's a career pilot with everything from Alaska bush flying to four-engine transports in his logbooks totaling in the high twenty thousands.) He's been like a father to me (after all, he's in his eighties already), so when he decided to hang up his Highlander recently I naturally said I'd buy it. So now I've got the 750 up for sale ( https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/ ... on-2-18900 ).

They say "Don't buy stuff; buy experiences!" Well, airplanes are NOT "stuff."
Twister offline
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Re: An affordable high mountain airplane?

@ Twister:

I hope you will post a few images and post a but more here re your experiences with this Highlander.
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