C180_guy wrote:

mtv wrote:I’m guessing that your criteria excludes small towns? Lots of small towns out there with friendly airports.

MTV

On the contrary - we desire rural or semi-rural. Not a city boy here. You are correct - lots of awesome small town airports, just no hangar space.

They’re building hangars like crazy at Ennis, MT. Both Townsend and Three Forks have been leasing lots and hangars being built. I can think of at least a half dozen small towns around here where you could build a hangar. If you want something already built, maybe not.

Get out of Kalifornia and do some looking….

MTV

It has been thirty years, but things change slowly on the Reservation. I had a verbal agreement with the Chapter (Navajo local government) President. It cost me zero. No, I couldn't take it with me elsewhere.

I'm just outside of Austin, TX (Cedar Park) and have called every airport within a 100-mile radius of my home. I'm on the "waiting list" for a hangar at all of them. Most tell me people are waiting roughly 2 years to get to the top of a list... It's every bit as bad on the NE side of Dallas, where I used to live (and where my plane is currently hangared - 240 miles from my home). There are a few uncovered tie-down spaces available, but with a fabric covered airplane (Dacron, at that), I just can't see doing that. We get WAY too many thunderstorms with golf-ball sized hail (and bigger) around here. But I would take a shade hangar (on the list for those, as well) as an interim measure. Just about anything is better than driving 4 hours to get to your airplane...

JP256 wrote:I'm just outside of Austin, TX (Cedar Park) and have called every airport within a 100-mile radius of my home. I'm on the "waiting list" for a hangar at all of them. Most tell me people are waiting roughly 2 years to get to the top of a list... It's every bit as bad on the NE side of Dallas, where I used to live (and where my plane is currently hangared - 240 miles from my home). There are a few uncovered tie-down spaces available, but with a fabric covered airplane (Dacron, at that), I just can't see doing that. We get WAY too many thunderstorms with golf-ball sized hail (and bigger) around here. But I would take a shade hangar (on the list for those, as well) as an interim measure. Just about anything is better than driving 4 hours to get to your airplane...

Thank the migration from the “left coast” for that…….

mtv wrote:They’re building hangars like crazy at Ennis, MT. Both Townsend and Three Forks have been leasing lots and hangars being built. I can think of at least a half dozen small towns around here where you could build a hangar. If you want something already built, maybe not.

Get out of Kalifornia and do some looking….

MTV

Do some looking? I am on the phone every day calling up airport managers. Out of desperation I thought I would ask on a forum if anyone has any leads.

C180_guy wrote:

skyward II wrote:I’m at Cable Airport in So Cal. It was a challenge to get my hangar a year and a half ago. They were using the airport for storage in many cases. They have been on a witch hunt lately evicting hangar tenants without aircraft and dead project planes. It’s been getting busy lately.

^^^ This - I wonder how many hangars nationwide would be freed up if every airport verified their hangars were being used for airworthy airplanes instead of being used for a storage unit.

About a zillion

Do you get an insurance discount for keeping your plane in a hangar?

Jack R wrote:Do you get an insurance discount for keeping your plane in a hangar?

Yes.

Same issue in Middle Tennessee.

At my local airport the wait list for a t-hangar a few years ago was a year and a half. The City declared they would raise the rental rates by 3% a year until the wait list was gone. Then they started charging a fee to be on the list. Then, to their credit, they evicted some of the people who were using the hangars for non-aviation storage.

Now the wait list is two years.

They just announced that this year they will raise the rental rates by 5% and start requiring $1,000,000 liability insurance with the City as named insured. In addition, should a tenant want to drive their car through the gate to the hangars, they must have $300,000 liability insurance for the car.

Same with every airport in the area. Long wait lists and higher prices.

kg wrote:Same issue in Middle Tennessee.

At my local airport the wait list for a t-hangar a few years ago was a year and a half. The City declared they would raise the rental rates by 3% a year until the wait list was gone. Then they started charging a fee to be on the list. Then, to their credit, they evicted some of the people who were using the hangars for non-aviation storage.

Now the wait list is two years.

They just announced that this year they will raise the rental rates by 5% and start requiring $1,000,000 liability insurance with the City as named insured. In addition, should a tenant want to drive their car through the gate to the hangars, they must have $300,000 liability insurance for the car.

Same with every airport in the area. Long wait lists and higher prices.

Whoa… One should be insured for that amount anyhow, but no requirement for proof of insurance at our airport in SoCal. Family owned is a blessing. Only good thing about living in Ca part time I reckon……

You also have pressure from the WOC migration, unfortunately…..

C180_guy wrote:

mtv wrote:They’re building hangars like crazy at Ennis, MT. Both Townsend and Three Forks have been leasing lots and hangars being built. I can think of at least a half dozen small towns around here where you could build a hangar. If you want something already built, maybe not.

Get out of Kalifornia and do some looking….

MTV

Do some looking? I am on the phone every day calling up airport managers. Out of desperation I thought I would ask on a forum if anyone has any leads.

Okay, so how about clarifying your request. Are you looking to buy, to build, or only to rent a hangar?

I always find it fascinating that folks post requests on forums, but only provide the most basic information. Then, after multiple posts, the specifics start to come out.

If I were seriously considering relocation, hangar space would be fairly low on my priority, but high on my list would be finding an airport where I could construct a hangar. While that’s a big financial hit these days, the long term benefits are good.

In the meantime, I wouldn’t be at all afraid to park a fabric covered plane outdoors. In fact, I kept planes outdoors for almost thirty years, never a problem.

I’d find the place I want to LIVE, then deal with airplane storage.

MTV

skyward II wrote:I’m at Cable Airport in So Cal. It was a challenge to get my hangar a year and a half ago. They were using the airport for storage in many cases. They have been on a witch hunt lately evicting hangar tenants without aircraft and dead project planes. It’s been getting busy lately.

Good, one of my pet peeves. One guy I know of at my airport. His hangar has a dead airplane surrounded by a hoard of crap. Fire hazard.

OregonMaule wrote:

skyward II wrote:I’m at Cable Airport in So Cal. It was a challenge to get my hangar a year and a half ago. They were using the airport for storage in many cases. They have been on a witch hunt lately evicting hangar tenants without aircraft and dead project planes. It’s been getting busy lately.

Good, one of my pet peeves. One guy I know of at my airport. His hangar has a dead airplane surrounded by a hoard of crap. Fire hazard.

That was probably 1/4 of the hangars condition 2 years ago. It still exists on a case by case basis depending on your social status at the airport.

skyward II wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:

skyward II wrote:I’m at Cable Airport in So Cal. It was a challenge to get my hangar a year and a half ago. They were using the airport for storage in many cases. They have been on a witch hunt lately evicting hangar tenants without aircraft and dead project planes. It’s been getting busy lately.

Good, one of my pet peeves. One guy I know of at my airport. His hangar has a dead airplane surrounded by a hoard of crap. Fire hazard.

That was probably 1/4 of the hangars condition 2 years ago. It still exists on a case by case basis depending on your social status at the airport.

This is an issue at many airports, unfortunately. The FAA tried to put some teeth in the rules about having an airplane in a hangar on a federally funded airport, but it really still relies on the airport manager and/or the Board/Commission. In Crookston, MN, we had a few hoarders renting hangars that were full of junk, much of it not even aviation related. Airport Manager worked on the Commission to cancel those leases, which released those hangars to reduce the waiting list.

MTV

There's guys here that buy wrecked/salvaged project (for pennies) and lean it against a wall in the hangar for decades so they can claim they have a plane stored. The one I'm thinking of isn't even a certificated pilot. Meanwhile people wait years or find temp space an hour's drive away.

And there's plenty of money to build hangars - the issue is that the city will give a 20 year ground lease, then take the improvements without renewing the ground lease. And won't provide any water/electrical service to the lot to comply with the building code requirements for fire suppression. And won't maintain the 70 year old hangars that are already city owned and rotting.

But all that being said... if you put your mind and energy to it, there are openings. If you shake enough people's hands and ask, and do right by people, hangar spaces magically appears by word of mouth. I'm thankful I'm in out of the weather. I share a big box - wish I had one all to myself - but I got a good hangar partner so I'm set. And, I got a winter home way down south to boot. Rollin' 7's.

mtv wrote:

skyward II wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:

skyward II wrote:I’m at Cable Airport in So Cal. It was a challenge to get my hangar a year and a half ago. They were using the airport for storage in many cases. They have been on a witch hunt lately evicting hangar tenants without aircraft and dead project planes. It’s been getting busy lately.

Good, one of my pet peeves. One guy I know of at my airport. His hangar has a dead airplane surrounded by a hoard of crap. Fire hazard.

That was probably 1/4 of the hangars condition 2 years ago. It still exists on a case by case basis depending on your social status at the airport.

This is an issue at many airports, unfortunately. The FAA tried to put some teeth in the rules about having an airplane in a hangar on a federally funded airport, but it really still relies on the airport manager and/or the Board/Commission. In Crookston, MN, we had a few hoarders renting hangars that were full of junk, much of it not even aviation related. Airport Manager worked on the Commission to cancel those leases, which released those hangars to reduce the waiting list.

MTV

Here ya go: https://www.facebook.com/groups/4430367 ... 805905506/

Hangar for rent on CDA, Idaho.

MTV

C180_guy wrote:..... I never had a problem finding hangar space over the past 20 years ......

I've been based at my airport in western WA for over 25 years,
and hangar space has always been hard to come by.
They've been a number of private hangars built during that time,
with space for close to 100 airplanes, and hangars are still hard to come by.
It usually takes a while to sell all the units when a new building is built,
then there's a shortage again.
Recently the airport shook things up by enforcing the "hangars are for airplanes" rule,
after which several hangars came up for sale or rent.

FWIW the standard deal here is a 50 year ground lease, after which the improvements (building) revert to the airport.
But that hasn't happened yet-- leases that have expired have been extended / reissued instead.
Current standard lease rate for the hangar pads are $.07 / sq foot / month based on the building footprint.
All the hangars have power, the newer ones have water.
The going rate to buy a used hangar is anywhere from $50K up to 80.
They generally rent out for about $350 a month.

If anyone wants to build a hangar here, they should contact the Port of Port Townsend at 360-385-0656.
But be advised, although it seems contrary to their interestes,
the powers-that-be don't seem to want to make it easy for anyone to build a hangar.
Neither does the building department.
And constructions costs are sky-high these days.
That's why a lot of people have talked about building hangars,
but only one seems to be following through.

hotrod180 wrote:

C180_guy wrote:..... I never had a problem finding hangar space over the past 20 years ......

I've been based at my airport in western WA for over 25 years,
and hangar space has always been hard to come by.
They've been a number of private hangars built during that time,
with space for close to 100 airplanes, and hangars are still hard to come by.
It usually takes a while to sell all the units when a new building is built,
then there's a shortage again.
Recently the airport shook things up by enforcing the "hangars are for airplanes" rule,
after which several hangars came up for sale or rent.

FWIW the standard deal here is a 50 year ground lease, after which the improvements (building) revert to the airport.
But that hasn't happened yet-- leases that have expired have been extended / reissued instead.
Current standard lease rate for the hangar pads are $.07 / sq foot / month based on the building footprint.
All the hangars have power, the newer ones have water.
The going rate to buy a used hangar is anywhere from $50K up to 80.
They generally rent out for about $350 a month.

If anyone wants to build a hangar here, they should contact the Port of Port Townsend at 360-385-0656.
But be advised, although it seems contrary to their interestes,
the powers-that-be don't seem to want to make it easy for anyone to build a hangar.
Neither does the building department.
And constructions costs are sky-high these days.
That's why a lot of people have talked about building hangars,
but only one seems to be following through.

Wow that’s cheap. Afton Airport has one for sale for $575k…..Then you’ve got to pay rent for ground lease on top of that.

Seems to be going rate up here. If you can find one in Driggs it would be about the same money. Alpine Airpark? Forget about it.

I’m trying to tread carefully because I have some pretty strong opinions about some of the things mentioned.

Hangar space around here has always been challenging to find and I think it is only going to get worse. Old hangars are reaching the end of life, or the end of their leases, and airports are taking back the land to build business aircraft sized hangars. This is reducing the numbers of hangars available to the little guys and makes many of us uninterested in building a new hangar.

I wanted to build a hangar at my airport but the lease was for 25 years and no renewal option. The airport said they would lease the hangar back to me for another 25 years at which point they would tear the hangar down and do it again. Sounds like a great deal, right?

We bought an old t-hangar that was at the end of its lease but the leases has always been renewed and it was on a part of the airport that wouldn’t really work for corporate hangars. The airport manager wasn’t going to renew the leases on the 12 hangars on the complex and wanted to tear them down a build new city owed t-hangars. It took a long time and the formation of an airport advisory association to convince the city it was not a good idea.

At this point I’ve determined that I’ll never own a building on leased land again. It’s horrible. When my lease ends in 10 years I hope to be in a situation where I can buy some land and never have to house my airplane at a municipal airport again.

A friend of mine lives in an airpark development at Independence State Airport in Oregon.
It's a state owned airport, the airpark homes are adjacent with airport access for a very reasonable fee.
The FAA came out against "through the fence" agreements a few years ago,
I think their main concern was that everybody paid their own way with no free rides.
I dunno if FAA backed off or not, but a situation like at Indy would seem to be ideal.
You own the land, it's separate from the airport,
and you have no financial or legal obligations to maintain the airport.