robw56 wrote:They’re level in flight. Basically parallel with the cabin floor.

Thanks!

Bagarre wrote:When installing side steps, are they leveled in flight or leveled on the ground (tailwheel)
I cant tell from photos and can see arguments for both ways.

I would go out and physically measure some (hopefully factory installed) steps and handles
on other airplanes of your model.
On the C180 the steps bolt through the flange of the floorboards as well as through the boot cowl,
but I don't think they're parallel to the floorboards.
Check the rivet line in the photo in my earlier post.

Mine is a 170 - handles and steps were never a factory option.
The next best would be an early 172 but it's not a tailwheel so the comparison is a little skewed.
Next would be a 180 and probably the best to compare against.

Level in flight makes sense from a drag perspective.

Follow up questions:

So I emailed Atlee Dodge to ask for any installation instructions or paperwork they might have. They responded by saying they had none. So...as was kind of mentioned before, you put them wherever work best for you? What about paperwork? They are PMA’d. Just a Logbook entry? 337? Usually you refer to a “installed per such and such instructions or procedures”. Just wondering how to document it.

Thanks,
Cory

There is no basis for the atlee cowl steps, strut step, and handle. This is the same with the V brace in some models. Technically you cant install them, but...

There are many hundreds of Cessnas flying around with door handles in the boot cowl, so just install them and be done. If you want to log an entry, one could just say "installed step, handle, and strut step per auxiliary refueling equipment installation Fig 126A (180/185)"

They are all good mods... and way better than grip tape on the strut.

Yes, they are non structural, and have minuscule effect on aerodynamics. Minor alteration, done with a logbook entry, as Greg noted. Keep it simple.

If your mechanic isn't willing to go there, get another mechanic.

MTV

mtv wrote:Yes, they are non structural, and have minuscule effect on aerodynamics. <snip>
MTV

And that is the problem: Steps and handles are non-structural to the airframe, but they must react structural-type loads imposed, to include a tired pilot slipping on condensation-wet wings while refuelling, falling, and subsequent grabbing for a handle while missing the step (or vice versa). F=ma. Now the boot cowl needs repair because the bonehead who installed mine did not install doublers.

Yes to doublers on steps & handles (suggestion: check your plane, I've seen more than a few without), and wing-walk "paint" or other anti-skid coatings. Slips in the air are fun, on the ground not so much...

Fly (& refuel) safely,
Pat

Awesome. Thanks guys. My mechanic is cool and I’m sure will not have a problem with it. I was just trying to figure it out before I committed to buying them.

I was recently looking at the boot cowl steps on a friend's 180. They were mounted waay higher than mjne, or any other steps Ive ever seen. Way too high for easy acess while standing on the MLG tire, at least for me. His plane has float fittings, maybe theyre mounted correctly for climbing up from the float rigging steps?

The steps on the side of the cowl on a 180/185 use the turned up edge (flange) of the floor where it attaches to the boot cowl as a reinforcement for the step and the same with the front side of the door post. If they are not installed in that position the strength of the installation is compromised.

Tim

Ordered them today! Excited to get them on. I'll update with a report on the install when we get a chance to put the on in a few weeks.

Interesting thread. When I bought my airplane 14 years ago, it was only 15 hours later that the engine was destroyed, so the next 3 months it was in my IA's hangar while the new engine was being built in another shop. Meanwhile, I had him do a number of improvements to it, including wingtip strobes, converting the electrical system to alternator, installing BAS harnesses, etc. One thing he asked me about was whether I wanted him to install refueling steps, and I declined. I have slipped off of enough Cessna steps that I didn't want them, and now quite frankly I really don't want them. I had to refuel the 172 that I took my seaplane training in almost 4 years ago by climbing on its steps, and that was hard enough then--I'm 4 years creakier now! My little 2-step ladder that I keep under the back seat is good enough for when I travel, I have a step ladder in my hangar, and otherwise I haven't needed steps. Yet I can see their value for all you young, athletic types who haven't yet developed a fear of falling off of things because you still bounce pretty good.

Cary

hotrod180 wrote:http://www.fadodge.com/boot-cowl-step/
http://www.fadodge.com/boot-cowl-handle/

I bought a set of steps & handles from Dodge ($85 each) about 2 years ago & installed with my mechanic's help.
The website makes it look like they come with doublers, they don't.
Those are extra, p/n 3354-D @ $40 each
I bought 4, turns out I only needed two for the handles.
On the C180, the steps bolt through the floor flange where it rivets to the boot cowl skin,
so no doubler needed at that location.
The mechanic's help came in where we were drilling out those rivets & cleco'ing things together.
The diagonal row of bolts in the step photo show that floorboard rivet line.
I'd suggest looking at and measuring the step / handle location on several other airplanes before decided on where to mount yours.
I decided to do without the strut steps (also priced at $85 each),
& just used a 6 or 8" length of peel-and-stick non-skid from the hardware store. Works great.

Hey Rod,

Did you trim the non_skid stuff yourself and if so, how did you do it? Just take a wag at it?

I painted my handles today and they are going on Thursday along with the steps.

Skateboard tape. Cuts with scissors or shears.

What he said.
I bought the non-skid at the local True Value Airmotive.

Great. Thanks.

Found some. Fingers crossed this goes relatively smoothly tomorrow!

Well, my mechanic and I spent the last two days putting that handles and steps on. Unfortunately we ran into an issue. The handles are fine but the skin where the steps were placed is flexing, even with the doubler behind it. I’ll try to get some pics posted but with Tapatalk not letting pics be added to replies, it’s a pain.

Our positioning of the steps was limited by height (its already way up there because of the larger tires), heating ducting structure in that area, and curvature of the fuselage. I wasn’t able to tie into a rivet line for those same reasons. So, it’s in between rivet lines in a rectangle about 12” x 16”. We had thought it was close enough to enough rivet lines that the skin would be strong enough with the doubler.

So now I’ve got to figure out how to reinforce that area. I’ve got a few guys that are sheet metal guys to consult with but thought I’d throw it out here too for some advice.

Here are some pics.

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I'm not familiar with the 200 series singles, but I'm sure there's some 205's and/or 206/207's out there with boot cowl steps.
Have you checked out exactly where they mount the steps?