I have been working on a panel project for quite some time now. The radios were pretty original. Lots of things stay the same in GA but not avionics. Thank goodness for transistors.

That looks like all you need!

I don't know why everybody always wants to get all fancy with those new fangled KX170's????

1) do those still even work?
2) those are so cool!

PAMR MX wrote:

Cessna 12345, turn at Alpha 2 and contact ground channel 2.

I've been toying with the idea of a panel upgrade myself. I pulled the vacuum system & AH & DG gyros out of my last two airplanes (C170 & C150/150TD) for simplicity sake- plus, in both cases, one of the gyros went tits up and I didn't wanna spend money to overhaul what I never used. I've considered doing the same with my 180, but since it is a more serious traveling machine I thought it might be a good idea to retain them for "just in case" situations. I recently read an FAA policy statement saying you can now replace your vacuum or electric mechanical horizon with an electronic version as a minor alteration. This got me thinking again, only this time I'm considering replacing the vacuum stuff with a "pocket" Dynon. It has a horizon, plus GPS-based directional indicator, airspeed, altimeter, vertical speed, rate of turn, slid/skid ball, and probably a bunch of other shit going on also. About $1000, no approval paperwork required, since it's a handheld device, and (hopefully) longer-lifed and more dependable than the vacuum versions to boot.

CamTom12 wrote:1) do those still even work?
2) those are so cool!

I would assume they did when it was hung up in the barn 50 years ago.

hotrod180 wrote:I've been toying with the idea of a panel upgrade myself. I pulled the vacuum system & AH & DG gyros out of my last two airplanes (C170 & C150/150TD) for simplicity sake- plus, in both cases, one of the gyros went tits up and I didn't wanna spend money to overhaul what I never used. I've considered doing the same with my 180, but since it is a more serious traveling machine I thought it might be a good idea to retain them for "just in case" situations. I recently read an FAA policy statement saying you can now replace your vacuum or electric mechanical horizon with an electronic version as a minor alteration. This got me thinking again, only this time I'm considering replacing the vacuum stuff with a "pocket" Dynon. It has a horizon, plus GPS-based directional indicator, airspeed, altimeter, vertical speed, rate of turn, slid/skid ball, and probably a bunch of other shit going on also. About $1000, no approval paperwork required, since it's a handheld device, and (hopefully) longer-lifed and more dependable than the vacuum versions to boot.

The Dynon D2 is not a legal substitute for any legally required instruments, and it has a functional glitch, assuming that it still operates much like the predecessor D1--if it loses the GPS signals, it will go blank. While that's not a likely event very often, it does happen with handhelds from time to time. I've had my handheld lose the GPS signals once, while pointed north at night--apparently the combination of the airframe and that the satellites are low in the sky at night did it. If you can live with that possibility, though, and its lack of certification as a substitute for any required instruments, it's a nice little unit.

It's really a shame that Dynon stuff can't be legally installed in certificated airplanes. I have a friend who flies all over the country with his Dynon glass panel equipped experimental, mostly on IFR flight plans, and in several years of operation, he has never had a glitch of any kind. His cost for the panel was much less than any of the Model G equivalents.

Cary

I've got @300 hrs behind my Dynon Skyview/iPad mini equipped SQ2 and love the combination.

What would be fantastic would be to build a mounting system for the Skyview that would allow it to be easily removed like an iPad Gizmo mount. One would also need to configure the wiring (at least the power-not sure about the rest) in such a way that it's not "permanent". Done properly a Skyview could be panel mounted in a certificated airplane, like my 185 , as long as "approved" instrumentation was also included to meet the required VFR/IFR requirements. Last time I checked these were the minimums (anyone know if this has been updated?):

VFR/IFR
1. ASI
2. Altimeter
3. Compass

IFR
1. Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator
2. Slip-skid indicator
3. Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure
4. A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation
5. Generator or alternator of adequate capacity
6. Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon)
7. Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent)

I am hoping that if the FAR 23 rewrite ever happens that products like Dynon's SkyView will become available to the certified world. The deadline for this mandated by congress is the end of 2015; however, it looks like the FAA is going to blow it off. I'm not sure how they get away with disregarding congressional mandates.

Since the FAR 23 rewrite is not a reality yet, I too have thought about "portable" installations. One of the attractive things about the SkyView is its modularity. The air data computer is a separate box from the engine monitor box which is a separate box from the display. This, however, limits the feasibility of a "portable" installation.

I'm a day / vfr pilot, and so the Dynon would not be replacing any required instruments. It would strictly be for just-in-case situations. Even then, not much good unless I spend some quality "foggle time" once in a while.

hotrod180 wrote:I'm a day / vfr pilot, and so the Dynon would not be replacing any required instruments. It would strictly be for just-in-case situations. Even then, not much good unless I spend some quality "foggle time" once in a while.

You've mentioned that before (day VFR), which still amazes me. No disrespect intended, but while I know a lot of VFR-only pilots, I know very few who never fly at night. Especially in the winter with shorter days, it's hard to go any place with the guarantee of getting there or returning without landing in the dark. FWIW, I stay night current year round, and I stay pretty close to IFR current most of the time--in fact, I have an IPC scheduled for Tuesday, as my last IPC was a shade over 6 months ago, and I've not flown enough IFR to be current otherwise.

Cary

I like that Dynon, pretty cool, I'd rip out my vacuum and heavy crap anyday if I could afford it. No offense to you Cary either but I see no need to fly any SEL vfr at night especially in mountainous terrain, in fact it's probably no different then actual IFR in a piston. My passengers lives mean a whole lot more to me then just flying to get there.

I feel like the very best time to upgrade the panel is when your existing "stuff" is outdated/broke/due for service. I've been kicking around my options and would love to get rid of the vacuum system altogether. Given the availability of foreflight or other aps and ads-b in devices as backup to a synthetic instrument combo, now is really a great time for a "minor alteration"!

Cary wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:I'm a day / vfr pilot, and so the Dynon would not be replacing any required instruments. It would strictly be for just-in-case situations. Even then, not much good unless I spend some quality "foggle time" once in a while.

You've mentioned that before (day VFR), which still amazes me. No disrespect intended, but while I know a lot of VFR-only pilots, I know very few who never fly at night. Especially in the winter with shorter days, it's hard to go any place with the guarantee of getting there or returning without landing in the dark. FWIW, I stay night current year round, and I stay pretty close to IFR current most of the time--in fact, I have an IPC scheduled for Tuesday, as my last IPC was a shade over 6 months ago, and I've not flown enough IFR to be current otherwise.

Cary

I'm strictly vfr-day also. I've only been night current twice, once after getting my ppl, and once when I thought it might be a good idea.

When I'm flying in the mountains with my wife, I have a hard enough time being upbeat when she asks what I'd do if the engine quit. I don't think I could pretend that there were any good options during the night. On top of that, moonless nights might as well be hard ifr while enrute, and I'm not ifr, either.

hpux735 wrote:

Cary wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:I'm a day / vfr pilot, and so the Dynon would not be replacing any required instruments. It would strictly be for just-in-case situations. Even then, not much good unless I spend some quality "foggle time" once in a while.

You've mentioned that before (day VFR), which still amazes me. No disrespect intended, but while I know a lot of VFR-only pilots, I know very few who never fly at night. Especially in the winter with shorter days, it's hard to go any place with the guarantee of getting there or returning without landing in the dark. FWIW, I stay night current year round, and I stay pretty close to IFR current most of the time--in fact, I have an IPC scheduled for Tuesday, as my last IPC was a shade over 6 months ago, and I've not flown enough IFR to be current otherwise.

Cary

I'm strictly vfr-day also. I've only been night current twice, once after getting my ppl, and once when I thought it might be a good idea.

When I'm flying in the mountains with my wife, I have a hard enough time being upbeat when she asks what I'd do if the engine quit. I don't think I could pretend that there were any good options during the night. On top of that, moonless nights might as well be hard ifr while enrute, and I'm not ifr, either.

Same here, though due to being color blind. Even though I could pass a light gun test and get the restriction removed, I don't much care for flying at night over the mountains anyway.

There's no lift at night. [emoji1]

I'm strictly vfr-day also. I've only been night current twice, once after getting my ppl, and once when I thought it might be a good idea.

When I'm flying in the mountains with my wife, I have a hard enough time being upbeat when she asks what I'd do if the engine quit. I don't think I could pretend that there were any good options during the night. On top of that, moonless nights might as well be hard ifr while enrute, and I'm not ifr, either.

Same here, though due to being color blind. Even though I could pass a light gun test and get the restriction removed, I don't much care for flying at night over the mountains anyway.

Well, I don't fly over the mountains at night--although in my younger, foolisher years I did it, in more altitude capable airplanes than my airplane is. We all take risks just flying. I think we all agree that flying in the mountains is riskier than flying in the flatlands, and flying at night is riskier than flying in the daytime. I'm not interested in the combined risk of night over the mountains, at my older, not-as-foolish years. As I often say, I'm an old pilot, and I want to be an older pilot!

But I also don't like the limitation of being unable to complete a flight, just because it got dark. I can't tell you how many daytime flights I've ended in the dark, sometimes due to poor planning on my part, but most often just because it worked out that way. Especially farther north, winter time flying means the days are very short, so that one end or the other of a long cross country is likely to be in the dark.

I've also started long cross countries in the dark of early morning. Typically that's been because I didn't want to get to my destination in the dark, especially if it's an airport or airstrip which is unsafe in the dark.

On the issue of IFR vs. VFR, I was caught a couple of times in really marginal weather years ago, which convinced me to get my IR. The one which was the straw that broke the camel's back was a flight from Laramie to Sheridan, WY on a day which was forecast to be clear severe all the way. It was, until soon after Casper, when clouds filled in below us. As we got closer to Sheridan, I called the FSS that was there and asked for the current weather. It was overcast with no holes, and I had to decline the offer to obtain an approach clearance--I had no IFR charts and not the faintest idea how to use them if I had them. Luckily I found a hole somewhere south of Sheridan, circled down through it, and flew in marginal VMC on to Sheridan--very uncomfortably, as I realized how deficient I was as a pilot. I started my IR training that next weekend.

Consequently, I encourage all pilots to be night current--and proficient at night flight. I also encourage all pilots to get the IR training, and once they have it, to remain current and proficient in IR flight. If all you do is fly in the local area for $100 hamburger flights and sight-seeing, perhaps none of that is important. But if you want to actually go places, then it becomes much more important.

Cary

I like flying at night. The air is usually smoother and there's usually less traffic. I'll do what Cary does on longer cross countries and leave in the early morning to make sure we get to the destination early enough to do dinner or hang out or whatever.

Cary wrote: You've mentioned that before (day VFR), which still amazes me. No disrespect intended, but while I know a lot of VFR-only pilots, I know very few who never fly at night. ....

I can't say I never fly at night, like most pilots I've been caught out when late getting to where I was going.
I don't care for flying at night- too closeo to IFR for me, and all that black "down there" makes it impossible to pick out a good spot if case of an emergency.
FWIW I know a lot of pilots who don't care for flying at night-- including some airline guys who don't do piston SEL night ops.....or day IFR for that matter.

hotrod180 wrote:FWIW I know a lot of pilots who don't care for flying at night-- including some airline guys who don't do piston SEL night ops.....or day IFR for that matter.

Probly the same airline guys that think landing on 3500' of manicured grass is crazy scary and totally unnecessary...I know a couple of those guys too.