It occurs to me that landing in remote areas would draw the attention of DEA and other agencies as being suspicious traffic for potential drug drops, etc. What is the best way to prevent being perceived as such? We plan to operate off our ranch in New Mexico (haven't done it yet as we have been working to get to that point) and it is fairly well known that that part of the US is prone to drug operations. Is there any communications that could be made to declare your intentions and identify yourself? In our area we would be well distanced from any airports of which none are towered and communicating on the CTAF is not likely to be useful. Just want to make sure we're not raising any red flags.

DeltaRomeo wrote:It occurs to me that landing in remote areas would draw the attention of DEA and other agencies as being suspicious traffic for potential drug drops, etc. What is the best way to prevent being perceived as such? We plan to operate off our ranch in New Mexico (haven't done it yet as we have been working to get to that point) and it is fairly well known that that part of the US is prone to drug operations. Is there any communications that could be made to declare your intentions and identify yourself? In our area we would be well distanced from any airports of which none are towered and communicating on the CTAF is not likely to be useful. Just want to make sure we're not raising any red flags.

Well, you probably will raise some red flags at some point. Based on my 2 experiences being questioned by LEO's regarding off field or remote low flying, I'd say get in touch with the local sheriff and tell him what your up to and why, invite him out the your ranch and/or offer him a plane ride around the place. That way when they get a call about your activities, they will have a good idea who it is and what your doing. They still may send someone out to check on you but at least you've already established that relationship and communicated.

If the DEA or other group gets it in their bonnet to look into your activities, they'll do what ever they want and may or may not talk to the local LEO's first. You don't have anything to hide, so be open and honest with them.

However, it is also a good idea to get a refresher on your constitutional rights and rights as a pilot. Also, it will depend on how close to the boarder you are operating as law enforcement has more power and we have fewer protections within certain distances from the border. I'm sure others on here can clarify that point.

I wouldn't worry about it, its their job to figure it out if it they ever became suspicious. If your not doing anything illegal then what's there to be worried about? If you are then your on your own. Those big tethered blimps across the southern US are there for that reason.

Nuevo Mexico is 57% reservation, military or tribal. Lots of federals around, but mainly Border Patrol, BIA and BLM in non military areas. Be sure to contact the nearest tribal authorities, even though you are not on the res. Zunis are touchy about airplanes taking pictures for instance. Contact local county sheriff, tribal police, ranchers, and farmers.

I kept my airplanes on an abandoned 2600 feet of paved road near Tohatchi on the Navajo Reservation. Just got permission from Ernest Becenti, the president of the local Chapter House.

As Blackhawk said, be careful with the feds. They are administrative, not judicial. They do what pleases them.

This 2012 thread from a DHS visit to Schafer Meadows for "ramp checks" has some parallels and brings up some good information:

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/schafer-meadows-montana-dhs-inspection-10806

FWIW, I think that 2012 thread has some poor information in it. What I do agree with is to be polite to any LEO, local or federal, to whom you speak. But the warrantless searches have been stopped, or so they claim. You'll remember that there were some high profile warrantless searches back then, and pretty much that issue has died down.

In any event, a true ramp check can be conducted only by an FAA Inspector, after disclosing his/her identity with his/her official credentials. They are rare indeed (I've been partially ramp checked all of once in 43 years). The ramp check can consist of checking paperwork of both the pilot and the airplane, and it can be pretty thorough or pretty cursory, depending on the Inspector. No other LEO has quite that same authority, but the LEO is entitled to see the pilot's and airplane's paperwork, and any other LEO has to have either your permission or a warrant to enter your airplane. FWIW, here's a link to AOPA's kneeboard "advice"--it's generally pretty good. http://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/AOPA/ ... eboard.pdf

Cary

Thanks Cary,

Would you be willing to correct or speak to points that are deficient in the 2012 link so we can all have a better understanding of what we face, especially near border areas or international airports? The AOPA link has good information, but is fairly basic and limited in extent.

With your legal background, it would be good to know more about how to avoid situations to begin with and what else to do should they happen.

I've had 2 encounters, both with county sheriffs and all went fine with those, no documents were requested and once they knew we were and what we were doing, they were satisfied. I'm not sure about the TangoFox character on here though, I still think he did something he shouldn't have while I wasn't looking . Same thing applies to the OregonMaule fellow; he was in an awful big hurry to leave and left Rose and I to deal with the fall out .

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AKJurnee wrote:

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If your not doing anything illegal then what's there to be worried about?

I am not sure I am completely comfortable with that statement.Examples abound. For instance, anyone remember the 1996 Atlanta Olympics?

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Rudolph's statement authoritatively cleared Richard Jewell, a Centennial Olympic Park security guard, of any involvement in the bombing. Jewell fell under suspicion of participating in the bombing a few days after the incident, after having been initially hailed as a hero for being the first one to spot Rudolph's explosive device and helping to clear the area. When he came under FBI suspicion for involvement in the crime, Jewell became the prime suspect and an international news story.

I am sure we can all recall other similar situations.

Keep this in your plane.





REMEMBER, no one ever got a award for talking to police, giving them permission to search your stuff, etc.

Be polite, don't show attitude, state nothing without a lawyer, ask questions, DONT make statements, record everything but DO NOT tell them you're recording.


Nowadays these ain't your parents peace keepers, they are law enforcers, many are not of the mindset of making sure everyone is safe, it's finding crime, and when you look hard enough for something you tend to find it, even when it's not there.

If you have a local off airport playground that you fly a lot make friends with one of the Deputy Sheriff's that patrols where you keep your plane, and offer to take him/her flying. Chances are you'll create an advocate and someone whose name you can drop in a time of need.

And donate rides annually to auction fundraisers for things like library's, volunteer fire departments, etc. That will help endear you to your local community.

I've been doing the above for years and it's made a significant impact on how neighbors and law enforcement view me and my flying.

I just got my renewal form for my off road/ATV permit from the state of Idaho. As hoped, once I initially got registered into the system (which took several attempts and some persuasion) now I just need to keep it current.

Whether this means anything remains to be seen, it can't hurt is my attitude.

NineThreeKilo wrote:Be polite, don't show attitude, state nothing without a lawyer, ask questions, DONT make statements, record everything but DO NOT tell them you're recording.

How come? Seems like knowing that it's being recorded might keep them civil and adhering to the law. I don't have a thorough study to cite, but I have several anecdotes showing the when the police are aware they are being documented (civilly! don't shove a camera in their face and declare your right as a sovereign citizen to get into a debate about the law) their behavior is good. Now, of course, I don't have a control group where things were different so maybe these stories just involve the majority of LEO that do try to do their job properly...

Anyway, I'm wandering. Why do you suggest not telling them?

Great examples of what not to do.

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Also, always pay attention to the police officer.....


Officer Daisy Duke


Officer Heather Locklear

LEO's are people, just like anyone else, there are good one's and there are bad one's. I have seen the entire spectrum of each. Once when flying the 172 from southern AZ enroute to GA, I wasn't doing anything wrong, just flying close to the border. When I landed in TX, the attendant handed me the phone, I had to answer some question via the phone call. They were extremely nice and said thank you when I told them where I had flown from, (departed from Douglas, AZ which is right on the border), and where I was headed.

The other time, well, let's just say it was a plane full of Rambo wannabe's!!! No $h!t!!! I had flown to Wilcox, AZ and within minutes of landing a Citation (Lear or ?) landed, out jumped seveal 'super secret commando agents' in their tactical gear with what looked like MP5's at the ready! Total friggin a$$holes! Tried to give me the 'I'm a bada$$ and you are a criminal' attitude. They proceeded to threaten me with, accussations that I had busting restricted airspace, yada, yada, yada. After he finally shut up I told him in a polite voice, that he might want to recheck his information, he was incorrect, that the restricted airspace was inactive and that I was based within this restricted airspace. He looked into my plane trying to intimidate me with his demeanor, unfortunately for him, the plane was nearly stripped, I had just removed all the interior for annual. The type of person that had a superiority complex, dealt with enough of these types in the military to know how they operate.
He turned around, boarded the jet and they took off. No appology, no thanks for your time....nothing! Rudest SOB I think I have ever dealt with in any type of uniform. Wonder how much this cost the taxpapyers so these guys could play jerks?

Out of courtesy, contact your regional CBP liaison and introduce yourself etc.

My family ranches near the border downstream from El Paso in the Big Bend. For five years I have flown about daily with no transponder along the border on random flight paths, landing on private ranches here and there for work/fun. Never had any worries, no interrogations, no ramp checks, and no problems.

This is the United States and we are free to fly as we please in non-restricted airspace; even if your flight path is smack down our side of the river/border.

Have had a few fly by's from the leer jets or whatever but that was it.

rw2 wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:Be polite, don't show attitude, state nothing without a lawyer, ask questions, DONT make statements, record everything but DO NOT tell them you're recording.

How come? Seems like knowing that it's being recorded might keep them civil and adhering to the law. I don't have a thorough study to cite, but I have several anecdotes showing the when the police are aware they are being documented (civilly! don't shove a camera in their face and declare your right as a sovereign citizen to get into a debate about the law) their behavior is good. Now, of course, I don't have a control group where things were different so maybe these stories just involve the majority of LEO that do try to do their job properly...

Anyway, I'm wandering. Why do you suggest not telling them?

Because you have two types of people who want these jobs.

Peace keepers, the good cops, frankly they know it's your right to film, they understand why you're doing it and they don't care if you do.

Law enforcers, the guys who want the power/ego/drive fast and shoot shit/etc, these are the guy who IMHO pose more of a threat to law abiding American citizens than most criminals today. I advise NOT to tell them you're recording as it will likely add fuel to their ego fire and if something does go sideways you bet priority one will be your phone breaking or going missing.

yeah I've had two encounters landing at back country strips.... at one I saw two individuals about a quarter mile away jogging towards me after landing .... Got into the plane and started it up and took off passing over them at about 600 feet when I saw one with binoculars looking at me ... a couple weeks later I was informed that the border patrol was looking for a cessna , I was flying my Pacer, that landed in the back ountry.,... I called the local office of border patrol and spoke with a sgt without identifying myself... he stated that two of his officers saw me in the back country and that I took off and dove my plane at them trying to hit them....I asked him what would have happened had I hit them... he stated I would have killed them ... I then informed him that I too would be dead and that his officers were making the story up... He became indignant and demanded my identity... I told him the conversation was over and that his officers were liars... being former law enforcement myself I have total respect for LEO however there are some who will trample all over your rights and make charges and stories up to validate their arrest or stop... I'm just sayin... good luck and hope you don't encounter any of those...

just for info here's another story... neighbor hangar friend of mine flew to Borego air strip in east san diego county a few months ago.. landed and took off... flew around the desert enjoying the scenery... flew to and landed at Jacumba air strip.. a county maintained airport which parallels the border fence by less than 200 feet distant... taxiing back he was approached by a BP vehicle with lights on.. he stopped and shut down ... the officer asked him what he was doing... he stated just flying around and site seeing... officer asked where he had been and he advised him of the stop at Borrego... officer stated ..." yes they have been watching you"... who...."never mind" .... "did you call it in?" call what in.... "your flight" yeah i called my wife and told her I was going flying...."why didn't you call it in" .... I'm not required to call anyone .... he never asked for ID pilots license or any papers... but he was in radio contact with someone who advised him to let my buddy go... this just illustrates how little they know about aviation and how events can go against you .... when I was a cop with SDPD this type of crap happened with officers who were not familiar with a particular law and usually erred on the side of taking the person into custody and figuring it out later.... obviously my friend was being watched on radar and was confronted even though he was flying legally and landed at published airports...

Some more story's from an old thread:

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/community/forum/latest/road-landing-police-6106?p=77697#p77697