New pilot, zero time in tailwheel, only real interest is learning to fly in and out of backcountry. High DA environment.
Would like some opinions on what I should be looking at and what I should pass on with the level of experience that I dont have lol.

Some of the planes I have looked into.

Cubcrafters
Maule
Aviat
Kitfox
Cessnas 180, 185

I am leaning toward a cubcrafters right now but I do like the roominess of a cessna. I would like to have a plane that can get on and off the ground super short but who knows how long it will be before I have the skills set to be able to even start getting into the backcountry. For that reason should I be learning in a cessna? I like the side by side seating of the Cessnas and Maules but I have read Maules can be a handful on the ground and in crosswind and for that reason insurance is higher than other draggers due to incident rates. The cessnas are expensive now and comparing what your $$ will get you against a cubcrafters it seems like the cub is the better deal, but no side by side seating option. What backcountry capable planes are best for an older (50's) but new pilot wishing to learn myself into the mountains and backcountry. Would be nice to fly with the wife and dogs now and then that why the appeal of a side by side. Am I crazy at my age and inexperience to even learn tailwheel or should I look for a backcountry capable trike?

Thanks for any input you may offer.

Welcome. Work on your STOL techniques and skills first at outlying strips up and down the front range. I flew tired, low hp, tailwheel trainers all over the mountains to your west because they were cheap. They are not cheap now. The only really nice airplane I ever owned was a Tri-Pacer and I went everywhere a 90 hp Champ could go with it. On a narrow strip, most of the skills necessary to keep the tw airplane out of the rough is also necessary in a nose wheel airplane. Tail wagging rather than wing wagging for instance. Target between your legs, etc. I never had big tires, but pulling wind with a spreader on a Pawnee is painful even when empty. The airplane doesn't like stuff hanging off the bottom especially as low as the tires. You are old enough not to need the macho machine and your wife and kids will appreciate the comfort of side by side and a good heater system.

I'm 76 and have been through all ages and phases. I am going to get shot down now. Anyway, that is my advise.

Add the Bearhawk to your list

A lot depends on your budget, but I'd throw a Stinson 108 in there with any of them.
John

What’s your budget?

That’s a factor


Pilatus porter is nice

So is a 7AC champ

Budget is a factor

But off the cuff if you have some jingle in your pocket, and your looking a wife and dogs plane, 185 is very hard to beat

As far as age, it’s more mental ability in my opinion as a instructor, age is a a slight factor but not really notable, teaching a surfer to fly tailwheel is much easier than a engineer

But for a low cost sweetheart plane, yeah the 108 rocks, just won’t get the performance all around and IFR/floats/ski abilities of a skywagon

I was 50 when Learned to fly in a Pacer. Best bang for the buck by far, flew it all over Alaska until my wife had a chance to fly in the back of a cub. I now have a Cessna 180 and a Cub my wife prefers the cub by far because the few is so much better!! Most of the Cub Crafters stuff seems to go around 300 grand give or take. Cessnas 180s can be had for 150 grand and prices are coming down. For a new tailwheel pilot I would recommend buying a beater with a heater (would you give a 18 y/o a 300,000 car to learn to drive?). If you want to really learn to fly tailwheel get a 150-160 hp Pacer with dual brakes, a good instructor for 30 hours or so and learn to fly. I would say at least 90 % of the tailwheel pilots I know have bent at least one plane I know several that have bent 2 planes in less than 4 weeks flying off field. The most of tailwheel accidents don't get reported. It is much more experience/training/caution than age when it comes to flying tailwheel or any aircraft in the backcountry without bending stuff.
First stop looking for planes! Now go fine a Good IA at the airport you are going to base out of. Once you have that now you can start looking, it took me 6 months and 5 pre buys to find my first plane. I paid 24 grand and did not insure it. Best to get liability but hull just depends on the price flew it for 400 hours in less than 4 years then sold it. Don't worry about how it looks just just that it has a lower time motor, enough usable load and is safe. Get a few hundred hours under your belt go to every fly out you can find, fly with other aircraft, and you will have a good ideal of what you want/need. Once you have sone taildragger time then you can sell the beater start looking at the big buck planes. Go over to Supercub.org and see how many of them new Cub Crafter cubs are being wrecked by 20,000 hr ATP new tailwheel pilots, it is a lot!! For 2 people gear/small dog 4 hours fuel a PA 18 160/180 hp with a belly pod is the gold standard for STOL operations. 150 grand 90 mph and pretty easy taildragger to fly. No matter what you do or get next step should be spin training!!
DENNY

I currently have a 180 and its the perfect airplane for me and my mission of backcountry flying. Lots of room (I'm 6'5" and portly) so most of the tandem seating type aircraft are pretty cramped for me.

Do you want a "forever" airplane or would you considering an stepped progressive process to your dream airplane. Many pilots have started "at the top" but my personal preference would be a more develop climb to the top tier. A "lesser" but well maintained airframe will hold it's value, limit any anxiety of "learning" on an expensive airframe. An entry level Cub, Pacer, Champ will let you test the waters, develop your skills without a significant outlay of funds. That said if funding is unlimited then "blow the wad" but do yourself a huge service, save some of it for the best instructor you can find, don't go cheep on this. There is no harm in going large; it comes with a price, training but the ROI is well worth it.

Same as getting good on a motorcycle if you can't afford to wreck it, you'll never get fast riding it.

I’ll play the devils advocate for a second. It is so expensive to do a good proper pre purchase and find a nice quality plane. Plus, we all know that one of most expensive parts of airplane ownership tends to be that first year when you have to fix all of the maintenance the previous owner procrastinated on. Just to provide another option for the poster…. knowing what I know now and having made some stupid choices along the way, I wish I had just bought a quality wagon to start. Instead of spending all that money buying a training tail wheel plane, just find a rental J3, -18, Citarbia, Scout, etc and fly the hell out of it to get some experience. Then pay for real professional instruction in the Wagon or whatever long-term airplane you end up with. But I wouldnt waste your time and money looking at 5 airplanes around the country, get that plane up to date, maintaining, and annualing, a trainer plane that you will sell in a year or two. Just my .02.

Double post

ington6 wrote:I’ll play the devils advocate for a second. It is so expensive to do a good proper pre purchase and find a nice quality plane. Plus, we all know that one of most expensive parts of airplane ownership tends to be that first year when you have to fix all of the maintenance the previous owner procrastinated on. Just to provide another option for the poster…. knowing what I know now and having made some stupid choices along the way, I wish I had just bought a quality wagon to start. Instead of spending all that money buying a training tail wheel plane, just find a rental J3, -18, Citarbia, Scout, etc and fly the hell out of it to get some experience. Then pay for real professional instruction in the Wagon or whatever long-term airplane you end up with. But I wouldnt waste your time and money looking at 5 airplanes around the country, get that plane up to date, maintaining, and annualing, a trainer plane that you will sell in a year or two. Just my .02.

Great idea, much better than mine

NineThreeKilo wrote:What’s your budget?

That’s a factor


Pilatus porter is nice

So is a 7AC champ

Budget is a factor

But off the cuff if you have some jingle in your pocket, and your looking a wife and dogs plane, 185 is very hard to beat

As far as age, it’s more mental ability in my opinion as a instructor, age is a a slight factor but not really notable, teaching a surfer to fly tailwheel is much easier than a engineer

But for a low cost sweetheart plane, yeah the 108 rocks, just won’t get the performance all around and IFR/floats/ski abilities of a skywagon

My budget ($250k some of that on a note) doesn't include a Porter although if I won the lottery I would be looking at one in my hanger next to my Beaver next to my cub lol.

I'm glad to hear that a surfer may learn faster than an engineer, I would fall more into the surfer category, my instructor, he's an engineer, he is an amazing pilot and an amazing instructor and we both want to learn tailwheel. If/when I bought one I would let him learn in it.

I have before, and will again. Don't see them come up used and not sure how to navigatre the build. The only thing worse than me building a kit would be someone with my skill level building one for me. That I am sure is a whole other thread on how to locate the right builder for the kit in mind. They do look like a plane that offers what I would like to fly and I wouldn't be opposed to navigating the build build process I have quite a bit of experience navigating commercial tour boat builds. Do you have any experience with their handling on the ground compared to the Maule or the Husky?

contactflying wrote:Welcome. Work on your STOL techniques and skills first at outlying strips up and down the front range. I flew tired, low hp, tailwheel trainers all over the mountains to your west because they were cheap. They are not cheap now. The only really nice airplane I ever owned was a Tri-Pacer and I went everywhere a 90 hp Champ could go with it. On a narrow strip, most of the skills necessary to keep the tw airplane out of the rough is also necessary in a nose wheel airplane. Tail wagging rather than wing wagging for instance. Target between your legs, etc. I never had big tires, but pulling wind with a spreader on a Pawnee is painful even when empty. The airplane doesn't like stuff hanging off the bottom especially as low as the tires. You are old enough not to need the macho machine and your wife and kids will appreciate the comfort of side by side and a good heater system.

I'm 76 and have been through all ages and phases. I am going to get shot down now. Anyway, that is my advise.

I don't know why anyone would shoot you down and I appreciate your suggestion on learning STOL along the FR. I do like the cessnas for their comforts and roominess it would make flying much more enjoyable for my wife and the dogs. If I got a tandem she would fly more often and it would be more enjoyable to sit next to each other. If I bought a cub most of my flying would be alone until I met other pilots in my area to fly with.

Judging by your mission 'goal' I'd say you'd do yourself a huge favor by forgetting the end game airplane and buying the cleanest best example of a Taylorcraft or J3 you can find. Fly the absolute snot out of it for a year, I mean at least a 400hr year, sell it for what you paid for it, and then buy what you want.

Do not buy a CC anything for your first airplane if you truly want to learn how to make a wing sing. They will mask a metric shit ton of bad habits with their exceptional power and wing loading, but they can't fix poor flight skills or directional control. They will mask energy management with brute horsepower, but that doesn't get you flying straight, or help worth a darn when you get a bad hand dealt. A Tcrate will make you work for it, and force you to fly right. That is transferable to anything with wings.

Take care, Rob

Do you actually need a tailwheel airplane or want one? I would say get a 182 unless you really need a tailwheel airplane. New pilot wanting to dive into back country in a tailwheel airplane is not an easy task. It can be done but the odds of bending something are higher.

Get a 182, learn back country flying then if you really need a tailwheel airplane sell the 182 and get a tailwheel airplane, that way all you have to concentrate on is the tailwheel aspect of flying since you will already have some backcountry experience, learn one thing at a time. The 182 is a very capable back country airplane and it will be very easy to sell down the road if you decide to. Besides, you will get a lot more airplane for the dollar and your insurance will be cheaper.

Just my opinion.

Kurt

Rob wrote:Judging by your mission 'goal' I'd say you'd do yourself a huge favor by forgetting the end game airplane and buying the cleanest best example of a Taylorcraft or J3 you can find. Fly the absolute snot out of it for a year, I mean at least a 400hr year, sell it for what you paid for it, and then buy what you want.

Do not buy a CC anything for your first airplane if you truly want to learn how to make a wing sing. They will mask a metric shit ton of bad habits with their exceptional power and wing loading, but they can't fix poor flight skills or directional control. They will mask energy management with brute horsepower, but that doesn't get you flying straight, or help worth a darn when you get a bad hand dealt. A Tcrate will make you work for it, and force you to fly right. That is transferable to anything with wings.

Take care, Rob

Yep! I agree with this along with what I posted above.

Kurt

GB wrote:Same as getting good on a motorcycle if you can't afford to wreck it, you'll never get fast riding it.

I've spent some time on motorcycles, broke a leg even though I rode pretty conservatively. It happens. My plane will be insured so I can "afford" to wreck it but I prefer to avoid wrecks and will fly in a manner that will reduce the chances of that. I have even highly considered a trike for that simple reason, its what ive trained on, it's more forgiving, and honestly at my age and experience level it may be along long time before I land anywhere that would require the performance of a cub. I'm still working on depth perception lol. I can afford to buy a plane but I can't afford to spend $10's of thousands on renting and then still have the money to buy one. I am happy in an old plane with just steam gauges as long as it's a safe decent plane. I just want to fly low and slow.

Anything can be accomplished successfully, knowing when to get help or training is important. It doesn’t sound like money is an roadblock, so regarding your mission, 2 people, dogs and gear into the backcountry rules out the tandem planes, IMO. I would NOT buy a forever airplane without knowing that you will need a fair amount of training. Make friends with some backcountry fliers in your area. They will be a great help.

I rebuilt a Skywagon and had 0 tailwheel hours when I started the rebuild. I traveled a ways and paid a fair amount to get trained properly. It can be done. Same goes for backcountry flying, get training and go from the known to the unknown slowly, it can be done. There’s nothing wrong with getting a more basic training platform to start either. I tend to get bored rather quickly, so I skipped the training tailwheel platforms for the end game. Plus I had the money and ability to build what I wanted. A 182 would have been fine for what I do, but I wanted to be a Skywagon pilot, so here I am.

So buy a Skywagon and get trained up, that’s my 2 cents.