rw2 wrote:

blackrock wrote:Didn't Abe post the results of his pull test on various anchors a year or two ago?

Very interesting!

http://www.abesaviation.com/pull_tests.asp

Hmm... Interesting results alright. While they are a lot better than nothing, none of these portable anchors systems provide sufficient hold down power in a really strong wind.

As a very general example, at 50+ mph most of our four-seat airplane wings produce enough lift to elevate empty weight + useful load. Consider an empty 2,500 gross weight aircraft; the wing has the capacity to lift over 1,000 lbs (useful load), for example, that the anchors would have to counteract.

blackrock wrote:

rw2 wrote:

blackrock wrote:Didn't Abe post the results of his pull test on various anchors a year or two ago?

Very interesting!

http://www.abesaviation.com/pull_tests.asp

Hmm... Interesting results alright. While they are a lot better than nothing, none of these portable anchors systems provide sufficient hold down power in a really strong wind. At 52 mph most of our four-seat airplanes wings produce about 1200lbs of lift or more.

In those kinds of winds I'd be pulling my plane back into the trees.

I seem to recall, way back in an inaccessible corner of my now useless brain, something about weird wing covers for high wind conditions. Destroy the lift the best you can? Maybe back in a '60s trade-a-plane advertisement.

EB

You are expecting gale force or higher winds...? Double or triple up on ground tackle!

There is no one size fits all ..rock, sand, dirt, snow...choose carefully! And nothing replaces a shovel, hammer, and axe. Gloves are good for serious digging too.

Be careful of those one size fits all venders! My bag has lots of different anchors ( Land and Sea ).

If you park outside and a tornado hits it.....it isn't going to be pretty. And, yes, I have a friend to whom that very thing happened.

YOu can do the best you can do in a given set of circumstances. The rest is why I carry insurance coverage. Don't lowball your stated hull value....

MTV

8GCBC wrote:You are expecting gale force or higher winds...? Double or triple up on ground tackle!

There is no one size fits all ..rock, sand, dirt, snow...choose carefully! And nothing replaces a shovel, hammer, and axe. Gloves are good for serious digging too.

Be careful of those one size fits all venders! My bag has lots of different anchors ( Land and Sea ).

If in a high wind situation, it helps to get the tail up(decrease AOA) If you can find a board(2x4-2x6- Straight limb) bungee or tie to top of wing about 1/4 back, that will kill alot of lift!
If your bird will fly at 50 it will be weightless at 49!
Don't just tie the wings down, do the wheels also,
As above, bury everything you can and tie to it, sometimes it is a long night sitting in it waiting for something to happen!!

In those kinds of winds I'd be pulling my plane back into the trees.

In Nevada? Remember, this is the most god forsaken place in the lower 48. No one should ever come here because there are no trees and only desert.

Actually, I've been thinking it would be good to carry some sort of back-up anchors. I do get stuck in really windy spots at times. There must some emergency types (like one-time use) anchors out there. I seem to recall discussions on what I though were called duck bills or something close. Some titanium rods would be good if they could be had for a reasonable amount. I know about flow disrupting wing covers, but it is unlikely many of us would carry anything like that.

Thoughts? - and please save the sermons for church.

blackrock wrote:

In those kinds of winds I'd be pulling my plane back into the trees.

In Nevada? Remember, this is the most god forsaken place in the lower 48. No one should ever come here because there are no trees and only desert.

Ok, I'd be pulling it into the closest brothel carport.

Zzz wrote:

blackrock wrote:

In those kinds of winds I'd be pulling my plane back into the trees.

In Nevada? Remember, this is the most god forsaken place in the lower 48. No one should ever come here because there are no trees and only desert.

Ok, I'd be pulling it into the closest brothel carport.

Hey, Coyote Ugly and I tried that last year for real. We decided the power line spacing was a little too close for comfort at the Bunny Ranch parking lot so we continued in 50mph headwinds at 200agl into Mina; there was no place left to go - out of fuel.

they are duckbills and they are from the power line industry. They are a one time drive in and put pressure on the cable. If you so use them have cutters for the cable as you will not get them back and you would not want a mower to get involved in them.

I can say that I was impressed with your claws the time that I used them. The backups I have used were concrete spikes. Held in higher winds.

My 0.02.

Thanks Soaring! Those are what I was trying to remember. I'll ask around here to see if I can find a source or maybe someone will post one.

Those concrete stakes worked well alright and I thought they did a great job of supporting the Claw too. Now we just need someone to make those out of titanium!

On another note, did you get the email I sent last night?

For spoilers that are lite and easy to carry , try pipe insolation that you buy at hardware stores .Rolls / folds up small and lite and you can stuff it about anywhere .
Just pick up an stick or branch and put in where the pipe would go, then tie to the wing with 1/4" bungee cords . A 4 ft spoiler on each wing kills a lot of lift .
I built "fly ties" using 3/8" 2024 alu. rods 18 inchs long, works well in most soil and the alu. rods bend and go around rocks which make them hold even better. I put a steel cap on top of the alu rod to make them hold up better when hammering them in. Doug

blackrock wrote:

In those kinds of winds I'd be pulling my plane back into the trees.

In Nevada? Remember, this is the most god forsaken place in the lower 48. No one should ever come here because there are no trees and only desert.

Actually, I've been thinking it would be good to carry some sort of back-up anchors. I do get stuck in really windy spots at times. There must some emergency types (like one-time use) anchors out there. I seem to recall discussions on what I though were called duck bills or something close. Some titanium rods would be good if they could be had for a reasonable amount. I know about flow disrupting wing covers, but it is unlikely many of us would carry anything like that.

Thoughts? - and please save the sermons for church.

I've carried Duckbill Earth Anchors with me for years as backups. I've used them twice in remote sites. No worries about mowers there. They are commonly found at Electrical Contractor stores....it's what they use to guy their poles with.

You'll need to carry a drive rod to drive them in....a piece of rebar works as well as their expensive drive rod they sell with them. And a mallet or good hammer. Finally, they don't work all that well in rocky ground, but, neither does anything else.

I used duckbills for permanent tiedowns outside in Fairbanks for almost twenty years, on floats and wheels. Nary a problem.

MTV

I had never heard of duckbills, thanks for that.

Googling lead me to "iowa earth anchors". If I understand correctly that's the generic name. I also ran across "retrievable iowa earth anchors" which have two wire ropes and allow you to pull the anchor out when your done. Can't get much more "leave no trace" than that.

Looks like they are easy to buy; Home Depot sells them 3 to a package. Including the drive rod for only about $40:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Duckbill-Tree-Support-Kit-68-DTS/100175267#.Ucb1csu9KSM

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Duckbill-Drive-Rod-for-the-Duckbill-68-DTS-Tree-Guying-System-DR-1/100208922#.Ucb2LMu9KSM

These have 13-foot cables which seem too long. Shorter may be better but with a couple of cable clamps they could be made adjustable.

Just got it. I would love to but I have a catering gig up at the Flat Top Ranch the same dates, Darn it anyway.

If your truly worried about winds, a light, easy to carry item is the long linear weights the place at the bottom of tarps for fumigating. You naturally empty out the tube of its sand, so you now have a roll of vinyl material. When you get to a spot, like "Burning Man." You un-roll it and fill it with local sand, rock, earth. They will not score your paint and conform to the shape of the wing better than 2x4's and kill all lift. Best of all, you can most likely score a pair from a fumigation crew for a six pack, which ensures a pair will "fall off the truck."

In Cold Bay, Alaska, during the high winds, we would use 18 4 ton tie down straps on the Twin Otter. It was amazing to come back to the aircraft and see all three wheels off the ground, just hovering like a kite.

Biggest issue I have with any anchor you pound in the ground. Everywhere I try to pound them in 6" below the surface there is a huge rock. Sometimes it works to use your cargo nets. You place them under the wings, then pile the offending rocks in them, the wrap them over the rocks and then run your tie down to the nets. I can move 500lbs of rock by myself, 25 lbs at a time.

Those little tree anchors are waaaaaay too small for use to secure an airplane. Earth anchors range in size from those little tiny ones to gonzo huge ones.

Here's the company web link: http://www.earthanchor.com/duckbill/

Hell, when I lived in Cold Bay, we used the local fire trucks and fuel trucks and whatever else we could drag close to an airplane to tie visitors down. Taxiied airplanes all over town to park behind buildings during big blows. My airplane lived in one of the old WW II fighter revetments, which worked great, but not very portable. My revetment had a big concrete block buried for each wing.

Alaska Wing Covers makes mesh wing covers with spoilers. I had them make me a set with velcro to attach the spoilers. I was in Galena in a 30 plus kt wind. Airplanes tied down, rocking in the wind pretty hard. One Cub, wearing a set of these, never moved, and didn't even rock against the tiedowns. Bulky, but....... http://www.alaskawingcovers.com/WingCovers.html

MTV

We actually put in the sand anchors ourselves on the ramp, since we owned a piece of it. I used the snowplow for a wind break there more than once. The winds sure did howl through that pass. Cold Bay was a miserable place, name says it all. Spent way too many nights throwing darts at the "Weathered Inn."

I have a set of spoiler wing covers from Kennon--relatively light and compact when stuffed in the stuff sack, and easy to install by 2 people--a bit of a hassle for one person while the wind is blowing, of course. I've only used them "for real" once, and they worked.

Cary