mtv wrote:Those little tree anchors are waaaaaay too small for use to secure an airplane. Earth anchors range in size from those little tiny ones to gonzo huge ones.

Here's the company web link: http://www.earthanchor.com/duckbill/

Hell, when I lived in Cold Bay, we used the local fire trucks and fuel trucks and whatever else we could drag close to an airplane to tie visitors down. Taxiied airplanes all over town to park behind buildings during big blows. My airplane lived in one of the old WW II fighter revetments, which worked great, but not very portable. My revetment had a big concrete block buried for each wing.

Alaska Wing Covers makes mesh wing covers with spoilers. I had them make me a set with velcro to attach the spoilers. I was in Galena in a 30 plus kt wind. Airplanes tied down, rocking in the wind pretty hard. One Cub, wearing a set of these, never moved, and didn't even rock against the tiedowns. Bulky, but....... http://www.alaskawingcovers.com/WingCovers.html

MTV

Iowa Earth Anchors has a table listing capacities for the various sizes of anchors. The ones in the Home Depot link are size 68. What size would you suggest if theses are too small? My thoughts are the these will be used to supplement something like the claw. Even the 68's are rated higher than any of the aircraft anchor systems (all dependent on soil conditions, of course).


Duckbill Model
Recommended Working Load in Normal Soils*
Wire Rope Capacity
Standard Installation Depth
40
300 lbs (135 kg)
480 lbs (216 kg)
20 in (.5m)
68
1,100 lbs (485 kg)
1,700 lbs (765 kg)
30 in (.85m)
88
3,000 lbs (1,350 kg)
6,100 lbs (2,745 kg)
42 in (1.05m)
138
5,000 lbs (2,250 kg)
9,800 lbs (4,410 kg)
60 in (1.5m)

Does anyone know how much abuse the little flip down latches on a 180 will take? Thats always been a concern of mine. Sometimes I tie straight to the strut itself. Good,bad?

The strut certainly isn't designed as a tie-down. If the tie slips down the strut, you can almost guarantee it will be bent. I suppose if you could somehow assure that it wouldn't slide down but would stay at the top of the strut where the flip out tie-down ring is, it would be OK.

I looked for duckbills at Home Depot an hour ago--couldn't find them, and the old boy "helping" in the garden center acted like he hadn't the faintest idea where anything was. Maybe online.

Cary

I just looked at Home Depot here too and they don't carry them. The service desk ordered them for me so they'll be here in a week or so. I'll post my impressions of them as I've never seen a set. I ordered the size 68 Tree Support Kit for $36.97. If they appear to small for the plane, I'm sure they can be used around the house for them.

Cary wrote:I suppose if you could somehow assure that it wouldn't slide down but would stay at the top of the strut where the flip out tie-down ring is, it would be OK.

Pass your line through the ring & THEN tie to top of strut.

As far as lift spoilers go, I'm unsure how well they would work at high AoA. Seems like the bottom of the wing will catch a lot of wind force. Any one have any real world experience with lift spoilers on planes that 3-point at high AoA.

Where would the spoilers be placed chord-wise on the wing? Near the leading edge? The tail is too heavy for me to lift alone to reduce AoA so while that is a good idea, it isn't something I'll be able to do. I'm mostly thinking of situations where I have to land to sit out the weather. For me, that is likely the middle of no where with no one else around.

Dogpilot, i like your idea of fill-up bags although instead of sand, they might get filled with sage brush.



The strip in the photo above has saved my bacon on several occasion - once when the carb float bowl plug came loose and the other times due to weather. It is 50 miles from home and a 2-mile hike to the nearest ranch/phone/shelter.

High AOA is good with the spoilers. Put them fairly far forward on top of wing. The aforementioned airplane I mentioned was on bushwheels so sitting high. If you spoil the wing and high AOA lift will be significantly reduced. Leave the tail a bit loose and it can fly in extreme gusts. Not perfect, but better than blowing out a disc trying to lift the tail, or have the tail blow off a stump which destroys the horizontal.

I can't recal what size duckbills I use. When I get to the hangar ill look. But those little tree anchors aren't up to the task. The ones I've used are about four inches long on the aluminum toggle.

MTV

You carry an air pump, right? If you're on 31/35s and in that big of a blow, let the air out of the tires. No more high AOA. Hell of a lot easier than digging holes to push the tires into. Sorry if already stated on a previous page.

I've made several sets that can be used almost anywhere you can drive a stake . Steel concrete stakes( about 1 .5 inches wide and 1/4 thick x 14inches long ) available at Lowes or home depot . Metal screw together link and 10 ft. Of 5\8 Nylon rope per unit . Need good 3 pound sledge to drive them in . At ranch we pulled bumper off truck trying to get out . Drive them in at tied own spot at angle and leave 4 inches expose d and beat them from side to side to loosen them up to take them with you. I've sold about 10 sets for $30 bucks a set. The set weighs about 4 lbs but you need a "driver - remover " I've used camp ax ,hammer etc .

svanarts wrote:I don't know if they are the best but they are cheap and strong. I made mine out of steel angle and landscaping spikes. Drill holes in the angle for the spikes, two on one side of the angle, one on the other. A U bolt in the middle for your tie down rope. I tested them two years ago at Oshkosh when a squall came though one night. 60 MPH gust front and the tie downs didn't budge.

I'm having a little trouble visualizing this--can you add specs, pix, or both?

Twister wrote:

svanarts wrote:I don't know if they are the best but they are cheap and strong. I made mine out of steel angle and landscaping spikes. Drill holes in the angle for the spikes, two on one side of the angle, one on the other. A U bolt in the middle for your tie down rope. I tested them two years ago at Oshkosh when a squall came though one night. 60 MPH gust front and the tie downs didn't budge.

I'm having a little trouble visualizing this--can you add specs, pix, or both?

I think he's talking about something like this:



But beefier.

Matt,

Good thought on deflating the tires. Even if I didn't have a pump that is much easier to resolve than damage.

A lot of useful information has come through in this thread. Thanks to Barnstormer, the original poster for asking the question.

blackrock wrote:.... deflating the tires.

I've tried deflating tires for other reasons while building, it's hard to get much squash until they are practically dead flat - and then the rims have little protection.

Yep, dead flat and sitting on the wheels is what you'd want if you were trying to kill lift. Makes it a hell of a lot easier to work on the engine too!

carry a shovel - also makes it more "flat."

Matt 7GCBC wrote:You carry an air pump, right? If you're on 31/35s and in that big of a blow, let the air out of the tires. No more high AOA. Hell of a lot easier than digging holes to push the tires into. Sorry if already stated on a previous page.

Why not just pile some dirt or rocks under the tail and tie it down to accomplish the same thing?

CW

Anyone have any experience with something like this?



I have a couple that seem to work pretty well, although I've only used them at Schafer and Meadow Creek, and never in strong winds. They are easy to screw into the ground - I use an aluminum bike seat post for leverage. Once they are in the ground all the way (14" or so) it doesn't seem like anything could rip them out. The screw on the bottom is probably 4" in diameter.

I like digging dirt, piling rocks and logs to protect my assets. But, then again, I am part Neanderthal.

One type of portable anchor (AKA "tie down) for land use is the Aussie tent and awning stake. Please see picture of Aussie Tent stakes here: http://corvallis.pro/var/2013.06.26.misc/1/image.jpg. I carry about 10 - 15 for soft to semi hard dirt. Set them in an array that equalizes the load. They are pretty strong...but, no empirical numbers to back my claims at the moment.

There is a good book on climbing anchors by John Long, Falcon Press that gave me a lot of fear and confidence towards earth and rock anchors. Highly recommended.

SamIntel wrote:Anyone have any experience with something like this?

I have some. They don't work half the time...not at all in rocky stuff. If you get them in, they disrupt the ground and simply don't hold. They seemed fine in dirt and sod. Spikes seem to grab better, and are easier to get in to hard stuff.

Also... An after thought...

The strongest wind from a low in the Northern Hemisphere usually comes from the Northwest quadrant. This may help me in preparing for the worst situation.

The dibalical desert wind however, I.e. our Satana Wind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Ana_winds is different. Please see wiki article.