Backcountry Pilot • Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Have you modified your aircraft? STC? STOL Kit? Major rebuild from just a data plate?
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Thanks for the response- that's what I was curious about.
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Gunny,
I had forgotten about this excellent write up that includes lengthy discussion of tire choices. Check it out, if you haven't already.https://backcountrypilot.org/features/c ... iak-alaska
S/F,
TB

Gunny wrote:Folks-

Its been awhile since I've seen discussion on this topic and nothing I can remember in one single thread. So, I thought I'd start a new one on it. I submitted a Field Approval request for my 180 for Goodyear 26's. If I get it I'll post the results and the application with Zane, so others can follow if desired. I'm not necessarily going to use GY 26's, but thought it would be a good thing to have in my logs.

So, first off requirements as I see them. Feel free to modify, or add your own. I've got a C180A that I want to use Backcountry, some of you may have seen my posts. Right now I'm running 8.0x6's... I've got 8.5x10's that I'm not totally happy with. Most of my flying here in Texas will be on pavement, it's just the way it is. Maybe 10-20% will be off airport. For Backcountry stuff it will have to be a road trip. So I'd like a tire that won't wear out so quickly on pavement, but still be useful and cushion those off airport, backcountry operations. Speed and weight are issues to consider. I would very much like commentary and field reports (to include tire pressures).

The options as far as I can tell right now are:

8.5x10's -on the stiff and heavy side, wear great. Do impact speed about 3-5 mph. STC and 10" wheels required. Very tight fit with
brake rotor and tire.
GY 26" -Field Approval required. Given the stated policy of the FAA to use previously approved 337's as Approved Data supposedly
easy. I'll let you know when I get the reply on my request. Weight seems acceptable and reports on wear and speed are
favorable. 6" wheel.
Desser 31" -not much in the way of reports. Weight seems good, unsure of the TSO status, whether a Field Approval will be required.
Interesting though. I do remember hearing about them coming out with a set of 29" as well.
Bushwheels -Require an STC, use 6" wheel and double puck brake (either required or recommended for all of the above). Weight and
speed penalties. Poor wear performance on pavement. A bit pricey, but the Gold Standard for Backcountry operations.

So, there you have it for my meager knowledge (I leave out Ramp Appeal as a requirement/ observation;). The question is what would be the best compromise tire for the C-180/185?

Thanks, Gunny
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

I talked at length to Desser at Sun n Fun. This is what I found out. Grove is working on their TSO. Then Desser will package a 10" tubeless wheel and brake combo with their 31" tundra. I was told the STC would include a smaller tubeless tire for general use. Meaning buy an extra set of 10" wheels for times when the 31" are not needed.

Ken Faire is whom I talked to. He said they will have more information at the Alaska Airman Association Gathering. I am not going to make it this year. Somebody get the updated information and please post.

John
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Bigrenna wrote:
29" airhawks are very heavy. Around 54lbs ea on ABW 10" if I remember right. In contrast, 29" ABWs on 6" 6 bolts are 38.5 llbs ea. For shits and giggles, the 8.5x10s on the ABW 10" are 45lbs ea and 8.5x6 on 3 bolts are about 25.5 lbs ea.

For me, there is no better tire than the 29" bushwheels.


Are you running the "Heavy tread" ABWs ?
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Re: Best

corefile wrote:Are you running the "Heavy tread" ABWs ?


Nah... Just the stock 29's.
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Re: Best

I am a huge fan of the Air Hawks 29 x 11 x 10 I bought a pair brand-new shaved from Alaskan Bush wheel. Ran them on the plane for eight years and about 1700 hrs. I absolutely tortured them. Never had a flat or any kind of tire failure. I also have a set of 35s ABW. I love them even though I don't use them very much. They slow me down too much. I bought the set of air hawks that gunny had, and use them once or twice and sold them to me. They are getting shaved right now and will put them on the plane next week. After I wore the tread off my original pair of tires I was curious how much rubber was left. I never saw cord but I can tell you when all the tread is gone the amount of rubber and cord is very very very thin. I would think at that point it would be easy to get a flat but I never did. I would run the 29s as low as 10 pounds. I don't find them exceptionally stiff. Never slipped on the rim. when I changed out to the new set of 29's I was amazed how easy they came off the rim. I didn't have to fight or use big tire irons at all. I basically have nothing but good things to say about the Air Hawks. I have a picture here of one of my bad landings. Look at the pilot side tire. That was back in 2013 the tires lasted all the way through the 2016 Flying season. Image
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Image
8.50x6 Goodyear, 26" Goodyear, 26" Bushwheel
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Who is it on board here that always says the 26" GY isn't any larger than the 850x6?
The photo in the last post is about how I have seen the difference.
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

hotrod180 wrote:Who is it on board here that always says the 26" GY isn't any larger than the 850x6?
The photo in the last post is about how I have seen the difference.


The Goodyear 26 also has a "LOT" more sidewall flex than any 8.50x6 tire that I have used. As long as you manage the slipping potential under heavy braking, it is a great compromise tire because it lasts long, doesn't fling gravel from the treads and doesn't slow the plane down noticeably over the 8.50s.
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

I had my 170 on 8.50s in for annual last month and there was also a Stinson on GY 26s and the owner was wanting sell his tires. I took my tape measure and only saw a 1" height difference although the GY was much wider. I wish I would have rolled my tire next to his and taken a picture but from what I saw, switching to the GYs would have not made much difference in height and definitely no where near what I'm seeing in these pictures. Seems strange there is so much inconstancy in information but maybe the installed differences change quite a bit than the uninstalled pictures?
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

SkyLarkin wrote:...maybe the installed differences change quite a bit than the uninstalled pictures?


Re tires, I like to measure them inflated, on the wheel, on the horizontal.
Low pressure inflation with the airplane weight on them can change "height" quite a bit.
Inflated on a wheel vs unmounted makes a difference also.
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

29 Air Hawks and 35 ABW. I also run 8.50 x 6 if I want to go faster. ImageImageImageImage
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

DENNY wrote:I know the stock air hawk tires will wear well my question is how long shaved ones last?
DENNY


-Hello Denny. To your question- Forever? :) I can show u a set on a work wagon that are pretty old (15+?) and he does more flying with it than most. (off airport, etc)

-Re: "no sidewall flex" statement someone mentioned; there are multiple ply's of 29/10 air hawks. Three different I believe. I think the ones ABW carries are 4ply and flex well. The 10 plys are for 20000lb+ rigs. More ply=more weight and less flex.

-I just weighed one of mine (shaved) mounted on a ABW wheel. 46#

-My .02. Tires are just another tool. Ya get the one for your needs. Saying one is "better" is misleading really. Our wagon is currently on 29" ABW and will be on 29" air hawks in a couple weeks till about July 15 when it'll get the ABW again. It just came off of 8:00 and fluidyne skis. Several different missions and jobs and we use the tool for the job. Not everyone uses their wagon the same...... If I HAD to choose one tire it'd have to be the 29" Airhawks.

Cheers
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Best

AK-Hunt I would concur with you. If I could only have one tire the 29 Air Hawk would be my choice. Just for shits and giggles the new ones I just had shaved, I weighed them on the rims with rotors. 49 pounds. I told the guy shaving them to take half the rubber off and, it's about 3/16 deep still. Then I weighed the old tire that was wore out, no rim. 23 pounds. I'm guessing the rim and rotor way close to 12 pounds. You can shave a lot of weight off. My 35 ABW were standing right there. So I thought what do these weigh? 60 pounds right on the button. I am on my way to the airport to put the 29's on. I will weigh my 8.50s. Cheers Rob

8.50s weigh 23.5 rim and rotor.
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Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Image

29" Airhawk (non-buffed) versus Heavy Tread 31" Bushwheel. The set of bushwheels are 5.5lbs lighter. 103.5lbs vs 98lbs.


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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Guys
Thanks for the input!! I am the weak link of the pilots flying the plane. Hopefully this will be a all Alaska fun plane so the plane is locking in on the 29" inch buffed air hawk. I would love to have a set of bushwheels but because of pilot skill (me) and mission it sound like the air hawks are the way to go. Once I learn to fly the dam thing I will let ya know how they work out!!
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

wingnut185 wrote:Image
8.50x6 Goodyear, 26" Goodyear, 26" Bushwheel


Mount them and inflate them and I think you'll find they look a little different.

MTV
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

DENNY wrote:...so the plane is locking in on the 29" inch buffed air hawk.


The one thing I think that is often overlooked is the long term stress of all that weight constantly wiggling at the end of the gear. Sure the gear can take it in the short term, but 50lbs at the axle is quite a large moment compared to how the Cessna engineers anticipated.

Depending on the wind and my speed, I often feel the shake of the tires. No matter how many times I fly it, I still have a subtle panic when it happens.

Just something to think about...
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

Suffering from option overload here. Are there different models of the 26" GY's? Spruce sent me a photo of a guy measuring their Goodyear 26"x10.5x6 ($682). The diameter is slightly under 23", just barely bigger than my 8.50's. Is there an option that is actually 26", under $1000 each and reasonably suited for pavement? I tried scanning the internet in small, measured segments but am still not finding what I am looking for.
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Re: Best "Tundra" Tire for C180/185- Compromise?

flyingzebra wrote:Suffering from option overload here. Are there different models of the 26" GY's? Spruce sent me a photo of a guy measuring their Goodyear 26"x10.5x6 ($682). The diameter is slightly under 23", just barely bigger than my 8.50's. Is there an option that is actually 26", under $1000 each and reasonably suited for pavement? I tried scanning the internet in small, measured segments but am still not finding what I am looking for.


That's about right, the 26" goodyears aren't actually 26" tall.
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