Folks-

Its been awhile since I've seen discussion on this topic and nothing I can remember in one single thread. So, I thought I'd start a new one on it. I submitted a Field Approval request for my 180 for Goodyear 26's. If I get it I'll post the results and the application with Zane, so others can follow if desired. I'm not necessarily going to use GY 26's, but thought it would be a good thing to have in my logs.

So, first off requirements as I see them. Feel free to modify, or add your own. I've got a C180A that I want to use Backcountry, some of you may have seen my posts. Right now I'm running 8.0x6's... I've got 8.5x10's that I'm not totally happy with. Most of my flying here in Texas will be on pavement, it's just the way it is. Maybe 10-20% will be off airport. For Backcountry stuff it will have to be a road trip. So I'd like a tire that won't wear out so quickly on pavement, but still be useful and cushion those off airport, backcountry operations. Speed and weight are issues to consider. I would very much like commentary and field reports (to include tire pressures).

The options as far as I can tell right now are:

8.5x10's -on the stiff and heavy side, wear great. Do impact speed about 3-5 mph. STC and 10" wheels required. Very tight fit with
brake rotor and tire.
GY 26" -Field Approval required. Given the stated policy of the FAA to use previously approved 337's as Approved Data supposedly
easy. I'll let you know when I get the reply on my request. Weight seems acceptable and reports on wear and speed are
favorable. 6" wheel.
Desser 31" -not much in the way of reports. Weight seems good, unsure of the TSO status, whether a Field Approval will be required.
Interesting though. I do remember hearing about them coming out with a set of 29" as well.
Bushwheels -Require an STC, use 6" wheel and double puck brake (either required or recommended for all of the above). Weight and
speed penalties. Poor wear performance on pavement. A bit pricey, but the Gold Standard for Backcountry operations.

So, there you have it for my meager knowledge (I leave out Ramp Appeal as a requirement/ observation;). The question is what would be the best compromise tire for the C-180/185?

Thanks, Gunny

Gunny,

I'm in a similar boat; I'm in Texas and mostly paved, but all of my cross country and vacations are to back country strips. Right now, I'm running the 8.50 super hawk. I'm flying a 185 with 3350 gross, but never that loaded. Usually around 3000 pounds.

I feel the same as your assessment below on the options. I'd love to have a set of 29" BW's, but it's not in the cards for me. I'd go through them every season. The 8.50 x 10's look great, have a great STC'd wheel, but are a little heavy and stiff. The only option that I see that you've left off the list is the Desser 8.50.

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/ ... tire-15024

https://www.desser.com/Aircraft-Tires-a ... -AA4K5.asp

The only reason I don't have these on is I'm not sure about the load rating. 1600# per tire. to my feeble mind that would be 3200#, less than the 3350 gross that my plane is good for. Not sure if I'm looking at that right or if it matters.

"I submitted a Field Approval request for my 180 for Goodyear 26's". Me, too. Since April it's been at the FSDO, and that's with a copy of a previously approved 337. Our taxpayer dollars at work.

fiftynineSC wrote:
.............

https://www.desser.com/Aircraft-Tires-a ... -AA4K5.asp

The only reason I don't have these on is I'm not sure about the load rating. 1600# per tire. to my feeble mind that would be 3200#, less than the 3350 gross that my plane is good for. Not sure if I'm looking at that right or if it matters.

59, in fact it does affect you. The load rating needs to be larger than your GW capability. Plus it appears to be limited to 120 MPH... which is an issue as well. It doesn't look like a tire for the 180/185. But the other thread mentions a 27" tire that might be interesting.

gunny

One additional question that just came to me is the pros/cons of a tube. What say you?

gunny

Gunny wrote:

fiftynineSC wrote:
.............

https://www.desser.com/Aircraft-Tires-a ... -AA4K5.asp

The only reason I don't have these on is I'm not sure about the load rating. 1600# per tire. to my feeble mind that would be 3200#, less than the 3350 gross that my plane is good for. Not sure if I'm looking at that right or if it matters.

59, in fact it does affect you. The load rating needs to be larger than your GW capability. Plus it appears to be limited to 120 MPH... which is an issue as well. It doesn't look like a tire for the 180/185. But the other thread mentions a 27" tire that might be interesting.

gunny

I've run the Desser 8.50 smooth and have found it to be a great tire. 1600 load is per tire (3200 max gross weight, sorry 185 guys). 120 mph is tire rotation speed on landing and takeoff, which I don't have a problem staying under.

I have 29" Bushwheels, absolutely love them, 200 is hours and hardly any signs of wear, only like 10-15 pavement landings. I would not have them if I had to fly off of pavement, I have a friend who put 26" Bushweels on his 180, only lasted 120 hours, I think he claim he was 60% grass or something like that.

I have heard nothing but good about the 26" Goodyear, there are quite a few field approvals for them out there. These are probably what I would run if I had to use pavement much.

There is a guy named Mark Campillo (Same guy that has the MT Reversing Prop STC) on FakeBook that swears buy the 31" dresser. Of course he has a 185, not sure how they would do on a lighter 180.

29" Bushwheels are the cat's meow. The thing that burns them out the fastest is pivoting in place (or nearly so). That will burn them right to the cord and in no time - no matter the surface you're on including grass. Of course you'll loose about 15mph of cruise over 8.50's.

I myself have wondered what the cruise loss would be with 26" bushwheels, their footprint is not too much different then 29's but I've never found anyone whose flown both on a Wagon and can provide speed differences.

If you are in/out of control tower airports then 26 Goodyear's (shorter and narrower then 26 bushwheels) are probably the best bet. No speed loss over 8.50's and a bit bigger footprint. But you can't air them down very far without risking shearing the valve stem. Contact cement between the tire and rim reportably helps (no personal experience), "beadlocks" in the form of sheet metal screws through the wheels into the tire's bead would be best, although not permitted on anything except experimental aircraft.

My 2 cents.

mountainmatt wrote: 1600 load is per tire (3200 max gross weight, sorry 185 guys).

Doesn't the tail wheel tire carry the balance of the 3350 GW?

I've tried to justify that I could operate those tires on my 185, but I think they really could give some grief. Six ply tires are required for the 185, and I think those are only 4 ply.

I talked to Desser about the GW numbers of their new tundra tires. It doesn't mean your tires burst if you are above the rated GW, rather then that they will bottom out at approx. 2G depending on the pressure. If I understood them correctly that means if you land in the above case at 3200 lbs and touch down hard at 2G (which is basically a controlled crash) your rim will hit the ground due to the softer sidewalls. If the tire pressure is lower then the recommended pressure rating the tires will bottom out sooner of course.

Btw, the Desser 27.5" has a 1800 lbs rating. But you need 8" wheels, which Grove Aircraft offers FAA-TSO'd.

The 8.50X10 that you're not entirely happy with is the way to go for your situation. Ran them off-road with plenty of pavement mixed in successfully for years. We have a set of the Desser 29's. Great on a light airframe but I can't imagine they would last long on a 180. Finding wheels to work must be a chore as well. Could be wrong. Haven't seen their 31' yet.

The ABW 29x11x10's are a nice option. The hotrod 170 around here that uses them works pretty well.

Gunny,

If you decide to go the 29 Bushwheel route you can ask Airframes to add some additional "Skywagon rubber" to your tires. I had that done before Airframes bought them, I think Skalywag also had that done. Helps with the life of the tires on pavement. I don't recall the extra cost but whatever it was it was nominal.

I really like the 26 Goodyear tires a lot, but they have gotten pretty expensive - $725.00 per tire. Don't take the reputation for rim slipping lightly on these tires. I have seen them slip while still at a pretty high pressure (18 psi). I attributed it to getting some talc on the bead, but they definitely want to rotate under heavy braking. A sheared valve stem can really ruin an otherwise great day. There is no apparent speed penalty over 8.50x6s, but they do absorb considerably more shock through sidewall flex. As a do it all tire, this one is a tough choice to beat.

I have run 31 Bushwheels for a lot of my wilderness meanderings and they are AWESOME! Speed penalty, wear concerns and expense aside, 29 or 31 bushwheels are impossible to beat if you are operating off of rough or uncertain terrain. Most say that the 29s are the best choice for Skywagons.

They make this "Heavy Tread" version, which weighs more, but is designed for a longer life:

http://www.airframesalaska.com/HeavyTre ... 36.rht.htm

I saw some 31 Dessers on the 10 inch Gar Aero wheel. It looks like a good setup, but not much service history yet. Reliable sources indicate that Airframes is working on getting a STC to run this setup on the Skywagons. For a big footprint without the bankbreaking replacement cost, this looks like a decent option.

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/desser-31s-19439

The Airframes 10 inch wheel is pretty attractive because you can put your big meats on the 10 inch wheels and keep some 8.00 or 8.50 X 6 tires on your 6 inch wheels for quick swaps if you are planning on an extended period of pavement pounding and cross country flying.

Ultimately, for me running Bushwheels in the summer and 26" Goodyears in the winter when I am not doing much off airport stuff is ideal.

By getting a Skywagon, didn't u already decide not to compromise!!!

31" ABW or go home haha, have averaged 600 hours outta ABW's, don't avoid pavement, and live in a pile of lava rocks...

If u wanna go faster, then goodyear blimpies or desser smooth 8.50's both seem like a great option. Ribbed tires belong on a paved runway IMO


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The 26" goodyear was designed as a tubless tire (it says tubeless on the sidewall)- why do people get field approvals and run them with tubes? They work very well with a tubeless valve stem and oring and it mitigates any concerns about slipping on the rim. My experience has been very favorable at pressures as low as 2psi.

Silflexer,

What aircraft are you running the 26" goodyears as low as 2psi tubeless? Been considering a pair of the blimpies, but have been put off by the stiffness at 12-15psi with tubes. Didn't realize these were potentially tubeless tires, shows what I know haha...


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[quote="BRD"]The ABW 29x11x10's are a nice option. The hotrod 170 around here that uses them works pretty well.

These are a real good option.

I can do most of what I do with the Airhawks but it definitely pounds the airframe more and is not as forgiving. I cannot do (will not) some things with the ABW that I do with the Airhawks. (Very heavy, windy/gusty conditions and pavement) I currently run the Airhawks for summer flying and 29" bushwheels in the fall. Dropping off hunters on big rock or tussocks etc -bush wheels are like landing on pillows -- but I feel I need the stability of a "real tire" for a really heavy rig fighting big wind on asphalt which is a lot of my summer and they aren't bad at all off airport which is the other end of the flight normally.

The 29 ABW is the cats meow like mentioned. No real debate -- Also mentioned - don't make spot turns or tighter than necessary. Thats the quickest way to kill a set IMO. Pavement isn't that big of a deal on em if you use your head. (but the Airhawks will probably last a lifetime on pavement)

I think your original question was "compromise" and the shaved Airhawks with the ABW 10x10 wheel is that in a nutshell. I don't think most guys go anywhere they aren't enough tire.
But the ABW is still better in most cases.
Depends on your mission.

I have flown my 185 on 8.50s, goodyears, 26" and 29" bushwheels, in that ascending order of size. I like the speed of the 8.50s, and I like the clearance and softness of the 29" bushwheels.

While I dislike the potential rubber loss of the bushwheels when landing on pavement, what I dislike even more is the spray of rocks into my fuselage and horizontal with the 8.50s and goodyears when landing on gravel (the smaller tires seem to scatter the rocks while the bushwheels seem to roll over them). The increase in propeller clearance between the goodyears and 29" bushwheels is significant. I figure that the bushwheels help in so many ways by reducing airframe stress and propeller nicks that I overlook the drawback that the tire is a consumable item and will need replacing. I have another set of extra rubber 29" bushwheels ready to install when my current set starts cording. I think I have 200 hours on this current set with at least 75% pavement operations. I wore out a set of 31s (non extra rubber) on a cub in 1000 hours with the same percentage of pavement ops.

For me, the best compromise would be 26" heavy rubber bushwheels. I just sold 2 used pairs last summer and I'm still wondering why I did that.

With all this Ak Bushwheel talk, I was wondering what worn Bushwheels could be used for? Utility cart? Any ideas? Seems like a shame to just toss a set when they could still be used on the ground in some capacity.