I don't think this kid has been around long enough to know all the processes he is violating. He probably thinks he can do it all with 337's and no STC's...... I wonder what the FAA would think if they found out someone is advertising "new certified aircraft" without holding a Production Certificate

Tom wrote: 20 k gets you a production slot. …..

The opening post showed a Barnstormers ad,
Tom, I'm curious what venue the screen shots you posted are from?

hotrod180 wrote:

Tom wrote: 20 k gets you a production slot. …..

The opening post showed a Barnstormers ad,
Tom, I'm curious what venue the screen shots you posted are from?

Face book he posted in the aviation buy sell trade page.

Tom wrote:<image showing price expected is 350,000 to 550,000 USD

Are we not going to talk about how many better options there are for that kind of money?

I would be walking up to a large reputable shop with my $$$$$$ and walking away with a *brand new* plane, maybe an M7 or whatever.

Or buy a quick-build kitset, engine, plus avionics for $150k and pay someone to build it for you. It would still be much cheaper and brand new.

TOA-Cub wrote:I don't think this kid has been around long enough to know all the processes he is violating. He probably thinks he can do it all with 337's and no STC's...... I wonder what the FAA would think if they found out someone is advertising "new certified aircraft" without holding a Production Certificate

Con man. knows exactly what he's doing.

Has anyone who knows something about this guy gotten in touch with Barnstormers? They have a link on their site for reporting ads that are questionable.

MTV

So they legalized marijuana in WA huh? Someone needs to put down the pipe.

LOL

I am curious to know that if outside of asking a ridiculous price for a 170 if he has done something horribly wrong in the eyes of the backcountry aviation community. It wasn't that long ago that everybody was touting him as the "boy wonder" of aviation and now we are labeling him as a "con man".

I'm not defending or disparaging him. I'm just genuinely curious if others have been so misled by him that "con man" is a fair moniker or if we are all being a bit harsh based on a poorly thought out business model.

Above all, I hope that we are being fair. This forum is my last bastion of hope as most others are so full of trolls and haters that I can't get through the discontent to enjoy the content.

New 170 with a turbo for starters.

It’s not offense to backcountry pilots. It’s an issue of integrity in general when you’re making claims like those two above (and more) while trying to lure in folks who aren’t smart enough to know what they’re seeing to part with their money.

I don't think it's so much a con man deal,
as it is a young dude with (unrealistic) big dreams that he wants someone else to finance.
Someone else mentioned Jim Bede earlier...….nuff said.
FWIW this same young dude had a "land in all 50 states" thing going on a while back, and was looking for people to help pay for that.
Don't know if he ever followed through and completed that quest, but now here he is again with this 170B scheme.
BTW here's another ad he posted on BS,
I assume the big hangar is to house his future 170B re-manufacturing shop.

NW WA HANGAR • NEEDED • Looking for a hangar in the northwest Washington area, around 50x50 would work, smaller or larger ok • Contact Kyle Fosso located Anacortes, WA USA • Telephone: 360 488-3412 • Posted August 22, 2018 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad

Wasn't Kyle Fosso banned from one of the forums for selling totally unserviceable 170 parts . Taking the money and refusing to refund or make right. It appears he is less Than honorable

hotrod180 wrote:Google the guy behind this advertisement.

Has had local support for his plane: https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-and ... ant-c-170b

I hope he succeeds honestly and without financial troubles.

Gary

I'm not sure I see the criminal obfuscation in the advertisement that others seem to see. Yes, a low price is advertised to get people to enquire, but that's nothing new. Buying a place in line is nothing new, either... If you want a Carbon Cub, you buy a serial number that's years away from production. The word "new" could be misleading, but it doesn't take much to figure out it's not a new airplane.

I have no knowledge or opinion of the person in the add, and I'm neither for or against him. I just don't see the add as that misleading, even if knowledgable people recognize it as a fools proposition. Perhaps he is a con artist, but that implies that he has no intention of even attempting to provide an end product, not that he's offering an end product that's of little value in comparison to the price, or which is unrealistic to produce at all.

The whole go-fund-me thing makes zero sense to me, but it seems to be a successful platform. I can see someone raised on that philosophy having no moral dilemmas in asking people to fund a project he doesn't have the expertise to accomplish.

And frankly, anyone dumb enough to spend that sort of money without doing some research doesn't get a lot of sympathy from me. Most of us learned at a very early age that few things are as grand as they're portrayed by the seller, and buyer beware. I learned it around age six by buying crap out of the back of comic books, though that probably doesn't happen anymore. Anyone remember the x-ray vision scope that was just a feather in a box with a viewing hole? Maybe this is just another one of those, or maybe it's not. Regardless, anyone with the financial intelligence of a ten-year-old will dig deeper than the add before spending their money. And if they don't...best of luck to them.

From Kyle's FB page...didn't quite go to all 50 states. No apology to the ones who did support them. Buyer beware.


Flying 50 isn’t something to be done just to do it, it’s about giving you quality content to watch, and motivate people to get in the air and partake in our passion!
Until we get some real backing for our mission it’s going to be tabled. We can’t be pulled in 10 different directions. We have been let down by lots of people who like to talk but when it’s time for action they are gone. Also any great accomplishments in life are inevitably met with negativity. Like us there are lots of passionate individuals who want to organically share flying with people as something to strive for, but there are those who want to make money off of talking about the pilot problem and not solving it, it’s an easy way to generate views and donations, but takes money away from our current flyers and we won’t be a part of that, or be confused with any person or organization that does such things.
At Oshkosh and throughout the trip we were approached by many who offered to buy our airplane. We didn’t sell, at the time that felt like selling out to us. We evaluated the situation and since we hold so much good paperwork, data and experience we will be building more airplanes, this time to sell. I’ve already signed some buyers up. The airplanes will be as good or better than our current 170, and this will be our “bread and butter” so to say. We’re going to keep making videos, and posting on our pages, and we will eventually complete Flying 50 in the cinematic way it was intended to be!

Hammer wrote:I'm not sure I see the criminal obfuscation in the advertisement that others seem to see. Yes, a low price is advertised to get people to enquire, but that's nothing new. Buying a place in line is nothing new, either... If you want a Carbon Cub, you buy a serial number that's years away from production. The word "new" could be misleading, but it doesn't take much to figure out it's not a new airplane.

I guess the difference is that Cubcrafters actually has a plane to sell and your deposit is refundable. A deposit is used to secure your position and is not used to fund the development of the product. He's about to get himself into a whole world of legal butthurt if he's soliciting investors and calling it a deposit for a production position.

He's basically trying to be an MRO for one specific Cessna airframe. What he should do if he's serious and not a fraudster is get a couple of partners, or even some mentors that have experience in that space and put together a real business plan and then go solicit some investors. If it's a solid deal, they should be able to round up some Chinese private equity money and they'll be cranking out Numba Wan Shenzen Red Deer Mooney 170Bs at 1 per year in no time.

He has burned a lot of people. The more you talk to the more you find out. Hate to see new people in GA taken for a ride, because they don’t know any better then what they read online. It makes the honest mechanics who do great work quick look bad.

PilotMikeTx wrote:

Hammer wrote:I'm not sure I see the criminal obfuscation in the advertisement that others seem to see. Yes, a low price is advertised to get people to enquire, but that's nothing new. Buying a place in line is nothing new, either... If you want a Carbon Cub, you buy a serial number that's years away from production. The word "new" could be misleading, but it doesn't take much to figure out it's not a new airplane.

I guess the difference is that Cubcrafters actually has a plane to sell and your deposit is refundable. A deposit is used to secure your position and is not used to fund the development of the product. He's about to get himself into a whole world of legal butthurt if he's soliciting investors and calling it a deposit for a production position.

He's basically trying to be an MRO for one specific Cessna airframe. What he should do if he's serious and not a fraudster is get a couple of partners, or even some mentors that have experience in that space and put together a real business plan and then go solicit some investors. If it's a solid deal, they should be able to round up some Chinese private equity money and they'll be cranking out Numba Wan Shenzen Red Deer Mooney 170Bs at 1 per year in no time.

OK...so how hard is it for anyone of any intelligence to see his proposal for what it is, and either avoid it or embrace it? Is it a fantastically bad investment? Probably. But there are a lot of those out there...this is nothing new.

Folks are going on like he's some sort of master scam artist...something I just don't see. Anyone who goes in with him is either so wealthy that the money doesn't matter, or they're all wallet and no brain. Either way I'm not overly concerned about his current proposal or the people it might affect. I certainly don't see it as some sort of masterminded duplicity that will pray on the masses of aviators.

He's sold crap to people I know claiming it was serviceable, fuel tanks with holes in them, and from day one of his fund raising crap to rebuild his own personal airplane I've called BS, got removed from his FB page because I asked questions. No, masses of people aren't going to buy a half million dollar 170.

There is nothing about this guy that I've seen that says anything other than unscrupulous.

I believe that one could buy a mediocre example of a C185 and perform a ground up airframe restoration with all of the best goodies at a reputable business like Beegles Aircraft Services for less than $350000 including the $120000 aircraft.

Now this guy is offering a modded out Cessna 170, sold "as new" for 350-550k?

Sounds like a pretty smelly deal before even considering the approval details of the mods he promises.

Scolopax wrote:I believe that one could buy a mediocre example of a C185 and perform a ground up airframe restoration with all of the best goodies at a reputable business like Beegles Aircraft Services for less than $350000 including the $120000 aircraft.

Now this guy is offering a modded out Cessna 170, sold "as new" for 350-550k?

Sounds like a pretty smelly deal before even considering the approval details of the mods he promises.

Actually, that 185 thing was done, but it was well north of $350 K if my memory serves.

MTV