Hammer wrote:Devils advocate here...

For a lot of people $400k is NOTHING.

You can put way more than $400k into a Carbon Cub and you still just have two seats and basically no cargo room, and they're selling like ice water in hell.

For folks who want a high-performance tail dragger, it's a cromulent option. $400k just isn't much money to some people, and if this scratches an itch slightly better than the next option that's 1/4 the cost, it's a go.

Look at the bills people pay to own a private jet rather than just fly first-class. It's insane, and it makes $400k look like the change you loose in the couch.

As to whether it'll ever get built...that's another thing entirely.

I don't think that 400k is an unreasonable number for a fully restored and pimped out 170/180. Given the time and materials I have in mine, 400k wouldn't make me change careers to do this full time.

The track record and reputation of the person advertising for the job is the issue.

90+ years of aviation experience...what could go wrong? [emoji16]

Personally, this thread must be above my pay grade, I had to look up what both cromulent and obfuscation mean.

Hammer wrote: ....it's a cromulent option.

A well played Simpson's reference sir!

Deleted.

He did lower the price to 350,000 on barnstormers

He seems to have also "shed" a partner as well,

"Contact Anand Kumar - BUSHLINER BY ARC, Broker - located Granite Falls, WA United States • Telephone: (206) 251-1928 • BUSINESS CARD • Posted July 20, 2019 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser"

Photos of the C170B owned by the previous advertiser are still featured prominently.
In fact, in one photo, it is nose-to-nose with another 170B owned by a frequent BCP poster.
I don't know if this is supposed to be kind of a "before-and-after" illustration or just what.

You can probably restore your own to just as good for a whole lot less. I'd be leery of the "Just like new" claim, replacing all the skins is excessive. You can tell from the ED on Cessnas that the skin doesn't carry much load. I'm sure they will find and fix corrosion, but my concern with old aircraft is fatigue. Fatigue is in the frames, not the skins. I'd be curious as to what they are doing to the existing frames to extend the fatigue life. "Reconditioned/PMA replaced structure" is pretty vague. Are they reinforcing fatigued areas or just polishing and re-priming and replacing what's missing or they can't fix.

TOA-Cub wrote:You can probably restore your own to just as good for a whole lot less. I'd be leery of the "Just like new" claim, replacing all the skins is excessive. You can tell from the ED on Cessnas that the skin doesn't carry much load. I'm sure they will find and fix corrosion, but my concern with old aircraft is fatigue. Fatigue is in the frames, not the skins. I'd be curious as to what they are doing to the existing frames to extend the fatigue life. "Reconditioned/PMA replaced structure" is pretty vague. Are they reinforcing fatigued areas or just polishing and re-priming and replacing what's missing or they can't fix.

There is no "frame" for Cessna's - they are semi-monocoque aircraft so the skins are not for just keeping you warm - they are part of the structural strength of the aircraft - if you were to replace 100% of the skins on a Cessna - you would go a long way towards having a new structure, and would certainly have access to fix any rib, bulkhead, or spar that needed it.

Also the statement that you could restore your own for just as good for a whole lot less is very doubtful. For one - its a certified airplane so unless you are an A&P and then later an AI for all the sign offs - no you could not restore it yourself. To do what he is doing - you would need Cessna Jigs, and he is not just talking about replacing the skins - he is also talking about new engine, prop, garmin glass panel, bunch of STC. Every bolt, every cable, every gasket, every skin, every bearing, every hose, every fairing, every spring, every seal. Anyone that maintains a Cessna 170/180 know how ridiculously expensive some some of the new/refurbished things are (airbox anyone?) -

Titanium Gear legs w/ Alaska 29 bushwheels, titanium axles, titanium stinger and saddle, new tailwheel fork, tailwheel head - that is 30 grand right there

I'm not promoting him, and I don't know anything about this guy - but alot of your post is just not accurate.

Best of luck to the guy, hopefully he succeeds. I love to see entrepreneurs succeed in what they love to do. Hopefully he learns honesty is a huge part of what makes a company successful. Everyone makes mistakes and honesty goes along way when it comes to getting a chance to fix your mistakes.

bowie wrote:Personally, this thread must be above my pay grade, I had to look up what both cromulent and obfuscation mean.

Obfuscation has been part of my lexicon most of my professional life (being a lawyer does that to you), but the Simpson Dictionary of Made Up Words wasn't something I'd ever referred to, until I looked up cromulent.

Keeping to the thread's subject, though, I've been in aviation now for coming up on 47 years, following at least 10 or more years as an aviation fan. I've seen a whole lot of pie-in-the-sky plans to part people from their money in that time, involving flying cars, "better than Cessna" clones, world's smallest jets, plans for DIY airplanes that had never flown (and never will because of poor aerodynamics), and more recently way over priced seaplanes marketed to the jet ski crowd. After awhile, the smell of scam is pretty easy to detect. This one has the scam odor all over it.

Cary