I recently bought a C-170 ragwing. It’s about a 95% completely project. IA owned. I really want to put shoulder harness seat belts in it. Obviously some fabrication is in order as there will be drilling into the rear carry through spar. There’s a bit of info online about it with the 170a/b airplanes. I guess nobody updated the ragwings. They just run lap belts. Two I’ve seen at airports recently just run laps. I’ve looked at B.A.S. reel type but that’s a chunk of change. The IA I purchased it from threw in a box of new reel type belts with the spin release buckle. It appears to be a helicopter setup from AMSAFE. The belts have some paperwork and are new in box. What are the legalities or installing whatever belt you want? Or is it STC only? I’ve heard several experienced pilots, AP, and IA say “ screw the FAA and put damned good belts in the plane. Others say leave it alone. Others say STC only. Holy cow. I just want to make it safer but the reel type seem to be the way to go. I hate rigid belts in other aircraft I’ve flown. You end up with the belts so loose it’s useless at that point. Thanks for the advice guys.

Best option: BAS. Enter your cc number in the appropriate field, close your eyes, and hit enter. You should have them.

Sell the belts you were given to someone else.

If you must, my understanding is the FAA is pretty lenient on basis of eligibility for installing seatbelts.

Cessna had a service kit. They publish the relevant service bulletin on their website for free. You should be able to pick out the parts you need to install the hard points for the reels in the door posts per the service bulletin and buy the parts used from a wrecking yard. Then just use the belts you were given. Mounted per Cessna data, and belts with aviation approval tags should be easily eligible for a sign out. Ask your professional. He has the final word.

Shouldn’t need to drill the carry through spar for shoulder belts. Possibly for BAS belts, but I thought most Cessnas had a nut plate in the spar already.

No STC or field approval required, provided your installation meets certain parameters.
First, check for nutplates in the spar carrythrough.
Then read this, including the policy statement and advisory circulars referred to at the bottom of the page.
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/

hotrod180 wrote:No STC or field approval required, provided your installation meets certain parameters.
First, check for nutplates in the spar carrythrough.
Then read this, including the policy statement and advisory circulars referred to at the bottom of the page.
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/

Yeah, basically this. You can use whatever harness you like with a logbook entry, as long as installing it isn't considered a major mod requiring welding or cutting/drilling of airframe. At that point you'd need a STC or field approved 337.

I have BAS harnesses in my airplane, and like them.
Yeah, they're expensive, but the inertia reel feature is way better than "tight or loose" option with non-reel harnesses.
I understand Hooker makes an inertia reel system, don't know the pricing though.
Plus, others sell inertia reel set-ups which may be adaptable to your Cessna such as these, available from Cub Crafters for $459 a seat:
http://store.cubcrafters.com/38-Shoulde ... _1281.html
http://store.cubcrafters.com/27-Shoulde ... _1280.html

Cheapest route is to seek approval to install the nutplate found in later 170s in your airplane and then install the shoulder harness of your choice on a log book entry.
Getting the nutplate approved may or may not be difficult as it requires a second hole to fish the nutplate thru and a few cherrymax rivets.

OR work up a solution that picks up the spar's existing rivets to install without making new holes...may be easier to get approved.

Fixed vs inertia reel... inertial reels are the best. I flew fixed in 81D. Only real headache is reaching for the flap handle.
I ended up putting inertia reels in 81D using the existing modified spar (Hooker STC was already installed)
In 95D, I put BAS as they really are the best option..just not the cheapest.

Right. Thanks. Yeah my ragwing doesn’t have a nutplate from the factory. That would have made this a little easier for sure. Thank you guys. You gave me some good ideas.

http://www.hookerharness.com/aviation.html

I understand Hooker offers inertia reels but didn't see much about it on their website.
I think that website hasn't been updated in a long time,
might be worth a call to get current info.

hotrod180 wrote:http://www.hookerharness.com/aviation.html

I understand Hooker offers inertia reels but didn't see much about it on their website.
I think that website hasn't been updated in a long time,
might be worth a call to get current info.

It was a few years ago that I checked but the STC that covers the 170 was not for inertia reels.

Compared to the BAS STC, the Hooker modification is VERY invasive. It requires a rather large (5/8ths?) hole drilled and reamed thru the spar fore / aft, a spacer in said hole and an L shaped doubler riveted onto the spar with a dozen or so cherrymax rivets.
Pretty excessive compared to the BAS installation.

It also precludes installing the BAS STC at a later date. The doubler interferes with the BAS bracket and the only way to remove the doubler is to remove the Hooker modification which is to replace the carry thru spar.

Those Cessna nut plates have been known to pull out in an accident. Which is why the BAS harness system has a more substantial mounting.

BAS harness saved my life.....I wouldn’t use any other.

But, it’s your noggin.

MTV

In the grand scheme of things, the expense of BAS harnesses, both to buy and to install, is pretty small, compared to a lifetime of challenges caused by a serious head injury. The inertia reel system works quite well, as Mike has attested to. The only time I've found it slightly wanting is when I start to reach for something just as I hit some turbulence, and the harness locks up preventing me from reaching. So I stop reaching, it unlocks, and I'm able to reach--a very small inconvenience.

Cary

Bagarre wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:http://www.hookerharness.com/aviation.html

I understand Hooker offers inertia reels but didn't see much about it on their website.
I think that website hasn't been updated in a long time,
might be worth a call to get current info.

It was a few years ago that I checked but the STC that covers the 170 was not for inertia reels.

Compared to the BAS STC, the Hooker modification is VERY invasive. It requires a rather large (5/8ths?) hole drilled and reamed thru the spar fore / aft, a spacer in said hole and an L shaped doubler riveted onto the spar with a dozen or so cherrymax rivets.
Pretty excessive compared to the BAS installation.

It also precludes installing the BAS STC at a later date. The doubler interferes with the BAS bracket and the only way to remove the doubler is to remove the Hooker modification which is to replace the carry thru spar.

Yeah that’s a lot of material being drilled out. I guess not having to drill through the skin is their selling point.

Airfoil92 wrote:

Bagarre wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:http://www.hookerharness.com/aviation.html

I understand Hooker offers inertia reels but didn't see much about it on their website.
I think that website hasn't been updated in a long time,
might be worth a call to get current info.

It was a few years ago that I checked but the STC that covers the 170 was not for inertia reels.

Compared to the BAS STC, the Hooker modification is VERY invasive. It requires a rather large (5/8ths?) hole drilled and reamed thru the spar fore / aft, a spacer in said hole and an L shaped doubler riveted onto the spar with a dozen or so cherrymax rivets.
Pretty excessive compared to the BAS installation.

It also precludes installing the BAS STC at a later date. The doubler interferes with the BAS bracket and the only way to remove the doubler is to remove the Hooker modification which is to replace the carry thru spar.

Yeah that’s a lot of material being drilled out. I guess not having to drill through the skin is their selling point.

I'd take a quarter sized hole in my roof skin over four nickel sized holes in my spar any day.

Just to clarify, if I remember correctly, if the nut plates are installed no additional holes are drilled in the aircraft. For the installation of each BAS bracket two rivets are drilled out and replaced by structural screws in the forward flange of the aft carry through spar. If you do not have the experience or training to do this these rivets should be drilled out by a mechanic as the strength is effected by the fit of the hole. If the nut plates are not installed, according to the BAS notes a 13/32 inch hole is drilled or as an alternate means a 1/2 inch hole in the outer skin. My choice would be the 13/32 inch hole as the outer surface of the carry through spar is not opened. I have installed a couple of BAS shoulder harness kits in 170B's but have no direct experience installing the nut plates. I have had both fixed and inertial locking shoulder harnesses and recommend some type of inertial locking shoulder harness.

Tim

bat443 wrote:Just to clarify, if I remember correctly, if the nut plates are installed no additional holes are drilled in the aircraft. For the installation of each BAS bracket two rivets are drilled out and replaced by structural screws in the forward flange of the aft carry through spar. If you do not have the experience or training to do this these rivets should be drilled out by a mechanic as the strength is effected by the fit of the hole. If the nut plates are not installed, according to the BAS notes a 13/32 inch hole is drilled or as an alternate means a 1/2 inch hole in the outer skin. My choice would be the 13/32 inch hole as the outer surface of the carry through spar is not opened. I have installed a couple of BAS shoulder harness kits in 170B's but have no direct experience installing the nut plates. I have had both fixed and inertial locking shoulder harnesses and recommend some type of inertial locking shoulder harness.

Tim

Sadly the 170 had no factory nut plate. The 170A's and 170 B's did. My ragwing is a blank spar.

This is a nice pirep on an original Cessna 170

http://www.pilotweb.aero/features/fligh ... -1-5453031

Good info on fitting BAS shoulder straps, would certainly invest in these.