AirPlanes wants $50,000 to do an o-360 conversion. Is that turn key everything installed? If so, I'd say that's cheap.
If it's Engine, STC, all hardware but not install; I'd say that's about right.

I don't know how you could do an engine swap plus constant speed prop for the cost of overhauling an O-320. A new constant speed prop will run you 10 grand easy. I think "for the cost of an overhaul" is a marketing term like "Part of a complete breakfast".

For the cost of an overhaul (on top of the cost of an overhaul, using all your old accessories, cables, bushings, baffling and not including any labor charges) sounds about right...which is around $50k.

Well I have yet another update on the O-340 STC.

Talked to Texas Skyways today. The guy I talked to seemed to be pretty involved in the project. I think he is one of the test pilots.

This is what I learned.

-They need O-320 to rebuild into an O-340 (Does that sound, right? Is it the same case?) In the past, I was thinking you got a new engine, but maybe I misunderstood.

-You should be able to go either CS prop or fixed (you MIGHT be able to keep the same prop)

-They are still aiming for around $25,000 (plus or minus a couple thousand) regarding the engine. New fixed prop or CS prop would be extra, I think.

-Last time I checked they were getting ready for testing. This time he said one of the last test flights was supposed to take place soon; I think he said 2 weeks. So it sounds like progress is being made.

-He did mention something about engine mounts. Something about checking to see if you had the right mounts. I can't remember. (I'm a cowboy, not a reporter)

-He said he enjoys flying it. He says its pretty smooth.

it was nice to be able to talk with someone fairly involved in the project.

So its still in the works, but not quite ready.

On a related note, what is Texas Skyways like? Any good experiences? Bad experiences?

I thought I heard there were new owners. Is that true? I know the founder passed away last year.

If you actually believe that they'll swap your engine, including overhauled accessories, maybe an engine mount, etc, etc AND install it for $25 K, I've got a couple of bridges you may be interested in buying.

Now, they MAY be able to convert your engine CORE to a 340 for that price.....maybe, but who's going to overhaul your carburetor, magnetos, etc, etc.? Who's going to pull your engine out of the plane, then install the "new" one with all new baffles, installation of accessories, etc, etc? And, what will that cost?

Oh, and what happens if your camshaft/lifters/crank have a problem? Ca-Ching!!!

If this in fact turns out that they'll DO THE WORK and convert/overhaul your engine, as opposed to just converting your engine.....they'll have a line a mile long waiting for that deal.

Point is, you've been comparing apples to oranges, I'd bet. Yes, an O-360 is spendy, but your core 320 also has value....not as much as a 360 core, but..... Accessories are a big deal, installation is a big deal, even if the engine is a bolt in. If you have to buy an engine mount, Ca-Ching....You'd be crazy to install a rebuilt engine and not install NEW baffles, Ca-Ching.....

Etc.

But, report back, you may have found the golden goose.

MTV

I am just reporting what I was told.

I asked about the engine. I didn't ask about overhauling accessories, etc. I would assume those would be extra costs. Especially if any parts need total replacement.

Additionally, the STC is not yet completed. Once the STC is complete, then we can see where exactly the costs line up. I don't think anything is really final yet.

Perhaps I should have had better overhaul questions prepared to ask, but I didn't expect to talk with someone directly involved in the project. Usually when I call, they just tell me they are still working on it. Thats usually all I get out of them. I was half expecting them to say it was cancelled.

I never believe the cost I am told until its the final bill. For now I plan to ignore the cost I hear, until I can get answers on what all work will be done. I was mainly trying to see what cost they were aiming for.

Either way, I am willing to let the egg hatch to see if it is a golden goose. If it is, great. If not, well it can join the gaggle of expensive engine upgrades thats already out there.

I am curious why they are pursuing the STC. Unless it beats the O-360 upgrade in some way, I can't see them making money on it.

My point was, you're comparing a $50 K plus O-360 CONVERSION with what would appear to be a basic engine overhaul. You probably will save SOME money over an O-360 conversion, and will doubtless wind up with more power than a stock 320, but you're going to have a good bit more money into it than you keep citing.

MTV

Shadow, I'm curious to know if you have been flying the 172 over the last 3 1/2 years since you started this discussion.

If so, congratulations! You've enjoyed your airplane and have saved at least $50K on any engine upgrade.

Onthegas, yes, I still have the same 172 with high time engine. It has done really well, but I do worry about making rated power. I watch it pretty close. I want to catch any decline in engine condition early.

Mike, I may need to check back with Air Plains. I was thinking the $50k plus that they were quoting me was just regarding the engine. I didn't think that included installation. I can't remember if there was a prop included in that price or not. To be honest, I didn't inquire about much after that, since $50k was more than I was willing to pay anyway.

I grabbed a quote from Penn Yan the other day, too.

Normal O-320 overhaul:
Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Lycoming O-320-E2D with Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Steel Cylinders - $20,066

Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Lycoming O-320-E2D with Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Nickel Cylinders - $21,576

Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Lycoming O-320-E2D with New Factory Cylinders - $23,200

O-360 conversion:
Penn Yan Aero overhaul and conversion to 180 horsepower O-360-A4M with Penn Yan Aero overhauled steel cylinders: $37,419

Penn Yan Aero overhaul and conversion to 180 horsepower O-360-A4M with Penn Yan Aero overhauled nickel cylinders: $39,958

Penn Yan Aero overhaul and conversion to 180 horsepower O-360-A4M with new Lycoming factory cylinders: $41,143


You still have to install the engine. The sheet said figure 25 hrs extra labor over a normal install. I am sure there are some other extras here and there, too.

Anyway, I should have been more specific. When I said, Texas Skyways says they are aiming for $26k on the conversion, I didn't mean that was final cost. So you would be correct, the overall cost will be higher than those numbers.

What I am also thinking is that a decent chunk of the cost is in the hardware and changes needed on the 172 in order to switch to the O-360. I am told the O-340 conversion is supposed to be simpler. If its true, then that maybe where some cost savings are.

Regardless, I won't know what all is figured in on the pricing until the STC is ready. MTV might be exactly right, that in the end the cost will be similar between upgrade options.

Edit: You know, it might not be worth even worrying about. I read that Cubcrafters are maybe going to a 363 over the 340. They just mention the 340 not getting along with composite CS props. So even if it ends up being cheaper than the O-360 conversion, it may have some drawbacks.

I guess I will go back to looking for 182s.

Nah, do the new Stoots conversion and give us a review! Continental IO-370 rated at 195HP would be a beast in a 172! I'd hate to see the final bill on the conversion though. I'm thinking a guy would want to find 175 wings or get some larger capacity fuel tanks though since the factory tanks would seem quite small for a 195HP conversion.

stootsaviation.com/

www.avweb.com/press-releases/stoots-avi ... 70-engine/

I have flown behind the Stoots engine. Running LOP you are looking at about 8.6GPH Standard fuel tanks/wings will work great with those numbers.

In my conversations with Stoots, the big problem with the IO-340 was the inability to get it to play vibrationally with existing props. The IO-340 would be an ideal 170/early 172 engine because you could get to 180hp without having to do cowl bumps if you did the mount right. IF it's good with the Trailblazer, that would be awesome, but I don't think they could get it working with the stock O-320 FP props, even with repitching. That is why I was told ECI/Continental shelved the project.

WWhunter wrote:Nah, do the new Stoots conversion and give us a review! Continental IO-370 rated at 195HP would be a beast in a 172! I'd hate to see the final bill on the conversion though. I'm thinking a guy would want to find 175 wings or get some larger capacity fuel tanks though since the factory tanks would seem quite small for a 195HP conversion.

stootsaviation.com/

http://www.avweb.com/press-releases/sto ... 70-engine/

Cessna did that already.. Its called the Hawk XP... Have one in my shop, IO-360 STC'd to 210HP with constant speed prop. Built on the 175 TC so has big tanks from the factory.

Brian.

Isn’t there a 170 running around AK with a Titan 370? I seem to remember it performed really well.

alaskadrifter wrote:Isn’t there a 170 running around AK with a Titan 370? I seem to remember it performed really well.

My uneducated guess is that might be the Stoots that I read about.

I think you were correct.