Brian, that's kind of interesting that the tail on the 185 would be so loose after just 600 hrs.

180Marty wrote:Brian, that's kind of interesting that the tail on the 185 would be so loose after just 600 hrs.

Had undersized bolts installed... I don’t have the book in front of me but I know the bolts were one dash number shorter than the book numbers... threads right next to the shank we’re wiped out causing the tail to move enough to eventually wipe out the bushing... somehow luckily the 6K dollar hockey sticks attach hole was not wiped out to where that needed replacement also...

Brian

Hi,

Any idea of average man hours required to comply with SEL-55-01 if no extra work has to be performed?

Depends on if you find a crack.

Day 1: Take the VT and HT off and start stripping the paint
Day 2: Keep on stripping the paint, inspect carefully and clean up the tail section (I didn't find the cracked bracket until I wiped off the last sliver of paint)

In between fix/replace the cracked parts. I recommend removing and replacing the brackets regardless. Plenty of surface corrosion between those parts. They aren't incredibly expensive. Plan a day for that since you have to remove the middle section of HT skin to properly buck the bracket rivets.

Last day put the tail back together and re-rig properly. (1-2 days)

Also a good time to check all your pulleys and cables really thoroughly.

While your're back there you might as well inspect and re-grease the jackscrews, clean and re-prime the tail section, change the tail wheel stinger bushings etc. Buy replacement hardware including the spendy nylon bushings, everything you can find in the IPC. You can get the jackscrew covers from univair. It took us a few weeks working evenings and some weekend days.

* a little nuance when putting the VT back on: Make sure you re-install it with weight OFF the tailwheel. Shore the tail at the fuselage frames. The aft bulkhead and VT aft spar line up better when weight it off the tailwheel. The whole process will make you set that tailwheel down a little softer than you might have before.

Sooooo: 1.5 people working full time for a week if the hockey sticks are fine. -ish (but Im slow)

BazzLow wrote:Last day put the tail back together and re-rig properly. (1-2 days)

If you install Aeropod’s inspection panels back there you can seriously speed up the assembly and rigging process of a Cessna 180/185 tail.

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Amen!

Halestorm wrote:

BazzLow wrote:Last day put the tail back together and re-rig properly. (1-2 days)

If you install Aeropod’s inspection panels back there you can seriously speed up the assembly and rigging process of a Cessna 180/185 tail.

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lefoy84 wrote:Amen!

Halestorm wrote:

BazzLow wrote:Last day put the tail back together and re-rig properly. (1-2 days)

If you install Aeropod’s inspection panels back there you can seriously speed up the assembly and rigging process of a Cessna 180/185 tail.

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Thanks for the plug guys!

It does make installing and removing the vertical a one man job if you're careful.

Very informative!

Tks a lot guys.

Question for you gents. I am looking at a '53 C-180 for sale and while the jackscrew was replaced in 2017, I don't see anything in the work order about complying with SEL-55-01. They elected to replace the jackscrew after an off airport landing resulted in damage to a wing tip, landing gear, and a dent to the leading edge of the horizontal stab. Because the jackscrew was fairly sloppy before, they elected to replace it in the insurance claim. My question would be how invasive should the pre-buy be? Pull the covers and borescope? Or does some real dissembly need to occur? Or, should the pre-buy also include full compliance?

On my aircraft, you wouldn’t see the broken hockey stick with a borescope. The H-stab had to come off. The leading edge landing accident you describe would be perfect for causing that kind of damage. The hat shelf or horizontal cover crack I had could have been seen with a borescope. Some observers have commented that you needed to strip the paint off the elevator bearing support brackets to rule out cracks. That would require at least pulling the elevator, I believe. I’m certainly glad I did the entire SEL-55-01. Expensive in my case, but preferable to augering in when the tail comes off.

Norcal64d wrote:Question for you gents. I am looking at a '53 C-180 for sale and while the jackscrew was replaced in 2017, I don't see anything in the work order about complying with SEL-55-01. They elected to replace the jackscrew after an off airport landing resulted in damage to a wing tip, landing gear, and a dent to the leading edge of the horizontal stab. Because the jackscrew was fairly sloppy before, they elected to replace it in the insurance claim. My question would be how invasive should the pre-buy be? Pull the covers and borescope? Or does some real dissembly need to occur? Or, should the pre-buy also include full compliance?

After having put eyes on all the structure back there I'm especially careful with the tail wheel. I'd ask for the SB to be complete ahead of purchase.

jrc111 wrote:Replaced Stabilizer Hinge Teflon busing and metal spacers:



.

Brian-StevesAircraft wrote:….Just had the tail off a 185 recently to address some serious looseness in the horizontal stab... Turned out to be worn out hinge bushings... Bought a whole set from F. Atlee Dodge for just over $230....

My IA just did this (nylon bushings & steel spacers) on a later model C180 he had in for annual.
Stab was nice & tight after that.
Mine is showing some slop so I'm planning on doing the same thing to mine this winter.
However my early C180 IPC shows NAS296-4A needle bearings at that location.
Is the nylon/steel combo a direct replacement for those?
I plan to talk to my IA about it but haven't had a chance to yet.
Tried looking on the McFarlane & Dodge websites but couldn't find them.

Steve Knopp at Pponk has approved nylon bushings to replace the needle bearings. He developed them years ago to help coastal operators who were having trouble with corrosion in the needle bearings.

Pinecone wrote:Steve Knopp at Pponk has approved nylon bushings to replace the needle bearings. He developed them years ago to help coastal operators who were having trouble with corrosion in the needle bearings.

I’m pretty sure the PPONK bushings are for rudder and elevator bearings, not the stab hinge.

Chris


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You are correct Chris. Had my wires crossed. Thanks for pointing it out.

AEROPOD wrote:

lefoy84 wrote:Amen!

Halestorm wrote:

BazzLow wrote:Last day put the tail back together and re-rig properly. (1-2 days)

If you install Aeropod’s inspection panels back there you can seriously speed up the assembly and rigging process of a Cessna 180/185 tail.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for the plug guys!

It does make installing and removing the vertical a one man job if you're careful.

I'd like to get some more information on your inspection panels sir.

akaviator wrote:

AEROPOD wrote:

lefoy84 wrote:Amen!

Halestorm wrote:[quote="BazzLow"]Last day put the tail back together and re-rig properly. (1-2 days)

If you install Aeropod’s inspection panels back there you can seriously speed up the assembly and rigging process of a Cessna 180/185 tail.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for the plug guys!

It does make installing and removing the vertical a one man job if you're careful.

I'd like to get some more information on your inspection panels sir.[/quote]

Aeropod is a member here and one heck of an Airbus driver, I’m sure he’ll pipe up. Here’s an old thread on his inspection panels.

https://backcountrypilot.org/community/forum/latest/new-stc-for-cessna-180-182-185-188-from-aeropod-20902


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Hello all.

My first post here, although many in this thread are 'internet' known via the Supercub.org where I've been a member for a number of years.

I'm based in Victoria, Australia and own a C180J , 1974 model. I've owned the aircraft for two years now and about a year ago grounded the aircraft with engine issues. It's being rebuilt at the moment and as it's out of the air, I'm going through the aircraft throughly. I've got a bad case of 'while I'm at it'.

In relation to this thread, the tail is now off and I've ordered the attachment reinforcement bracket part # 1232624-1. The parts person is yet to confirm it's steel, but she has told me it's $350 AUD drilled, and $900 AUD not drilled.

Have others ordered this part drilled with success?

I have the Tanalian Horizontal Stabilizer mod. I think it's a great mod, but I see on the underside, the skin underneath the trailing edge of the D nose has a lot of corrosion. Between the D nose and original skin. I assume it's an installation problem, but interesting there is no corrosion on the topside. I just mention it for those that have that mod it may be worth looking at.

But what really has me with this thread, is the Stabilizer rear attachment bushings. My 'hockey sticks', sold at $10,000 dollars a piece in my language have a little scoring similar to Bazzlow's. Not bad and I'm sure it'll polish out.

But;

The IPC doesn't have a break down of the individual bushing components. So what are the part numbers?

I see on mine a central steel bushing in which the bolt passes through. That is clamped so as not to move with the nut and bolt. And on the outside of that the nylon bushing which moves around the central steel bushing. My problem with the central bushing it's bearing surface is so small. 60 thou if my memory serves me correct. Any wonder it mars the 'hockey stick' if the clamping pressure is not sufficient.

Have I got this correct? What are the solutions.

Many thanks,
Texmex.

Someone double check me but I believe this is the stackup for the H. I have all the receipts and CofC's in the logs. I can go look them up tonight to confirm.

Figure 19 from the IPC published 15 June 74.



-39 0732101-11 HINGE A5SEMBLY-LH ----------------------------------------- 1
0732101-10 HlNGE ASSEMBLY-RH ----------------------------------------- 1
ATTACHING PARTS
-40 AN509-416R12 SCREN ----------------------------------------------------- 1
-41 AN509-416R13 SCREN ----------------------------------------------------- 2
-42 AN960-416 WASHER ---------------------------------------------------- 4
-43 NAS679A4 NUT ------------------------------------------------------- 4
0760679-2 BUSHING ------------------------------------------------- 1
0732101-7 SPACER --------------------------------------------------



18051184 THRU 18051993 FOR THE MODEL 180
18051994 THRU 18052384 FOR THE MODEL SKYWAGON 180
185-0001 THRU 185-1447 FOR THE MODEL 185 SKYWAGON
(260 HP ENGINE 185 AND 300 HP ENGINE A185)
185-1448 THRU 18502310 FOR THE MODEL SKYWAGON 185
(300 HP ENGINE Al85)
18501935 THRU 18502310 FOR THE MODEL AG CARRYALL

Ah. Figure 16 in my manual but yes the issue was in my reading. It lists all the numbered parts and then a gap and the bushing and spacer below that. Is it true when they say there are no dumb questions. Sorry. I see Atlee Dodge sell them.

So did you increase the bearing surface to prevent maring on the 'hockey stick'? Maybe a thin washer between the spacer and hockey stick.