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cessna

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Re: cessna

hotrod180 wrote:
whee wrote:...3 young kids and wanted a TW airplane that would seat us all. Realistic options were a Maule 7 and a Cessna C180H or later. I determined that for me a C180H was the better option but I couldn't make the budget work for either so I build a Bearhawk…..


Curious just how much money you had into the Bearhawk by the time you completed it,
not counting all your time, vs buying a ready-to-fly 180 or Maule.


Not nearly as much as a good C180H or a M7 would cost. Plus I can perform all future maintenance and inspections which is a significant factor for me.
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Re: cessna

rw2 wrote:Whelp, the bad news is, you're gonna need to sell one of the kids if you're going to seriously entertain GA as a lifestyle with your family.

The good news is, the economy is still pretty strong, so kids are getting a reasonable price. During recessions you frequently have to pay someone to take them off your hands.


LOL!

This is the most reasonable thing I’ve read so far! [emoji2957]
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cessna

Back in 2016 or so, the economics of starting out in an entry-level 172 would have been more clear; decent 1970’s examples were available in the $30-50k range with lower time engines/airframes.

Lately however, the boom in demand for trainers has made clean 172’s into a hot commodity.

Many pre-restart examples are asking $70-100k+ (for a basic 172) depending on equipment and hours. Insurance // Fuel will be cheaper than a 205 or earlier 180 but capital costs may be comparable.




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Re: cessna

Get a 205. Bigger engine if you can.

My 180H is great for the 4 of us - I have 3yo twins.

I've been tempted to get the third row seat but figure I would be equally tempted to load the airplane up more than I should with 6 seats. The 180 is a decent 4 place at higher DA, not 6. If I had a 185 I might consider the third row.

Insurance is an extra $200/year or so going from 4 to 6 for what its worth
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Re: cessna

Get one more job, afford a 206 on floats, and spend any left over money on upgrades and accessories. Your wife will be so angry that the risk of the family growing any larger will be greatly reduced! :D
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Re: cessna

Pinecone wrote:left over money



That's the funniest thing I've seen all week! LOL
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Re: cessna

There is a Bearhawk just listed on barnstormers for a little over $100k.
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Re: cessna

Hammer wrote:What's your flight experience?

You're asking an unreasonable amount from one airplane, unless you think teaching new students is a 180 is economical, or even sane.


Edit-- wrote a long thing extolling the virtues of my amphib 182 then realized it won't seat five. Carry on.
Last edited by albravo on Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: cessna

See if you can find an early 185 (‘61-‘65 ‘66 had both 260hp and 300 hp) with the 260 hp engine if you want a taildragger. You get the best of both worlds you can haul a ton and look cool doing it. The 260hp 185’s are quite a bit less than 300hp 185s.

Most will poo poo a 260 horse 185 but you can legally carry 3200 pounds without any wing mods, tail mods or STCs. The pponk or Texas Skyways engine mods will set you back another $60k or more to get to 265 hp for the 180. If you do decide to upgrade the 260hp 185 to the 300hp the cost will be a little less because you not required to buy a three bladed prop. When you do the 300 hp mod you get the bonus 40hp and 100 lbs in GW.

By the time you do all of the engine, wing and tail Mods on an H model 180 you could get an early 185. Plus you did not spend a bunch of money and time trying to be a 185. It is not that I do not like 180’s but if you need a plane to legally carry a load right away the early 185 is the way to go. An extra bonus is the early 185’s are still light on the controls with the 300 hp engine even lighter than a late model 180.

When is come to the kids getting older, put jump seats in and have the lightest one sit in the third row in the middle for leg room. You may want to at that point look into a cargo pod.

http://www.kenmoreairharbor.com/uploads/9/6/8/3/9683162/sa525nw_ref.pdf
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Re: cessna

Throwing in my 2c worth, when I bought in partnership a 1970 182 back in 1975, my kids were 10 and 6. We did a lot of traveling in that airplane for the next 3 years before trading it on one of the first TR182s made. The only difference in their relative utility was that the TR182 was substantially faster. Although the folding feet took some of the TR182's baggage room, the 182's baggage area wasn't extended, so it was a wash. However, the TR182's extra empty weight meant Wife 1 had to limit the weight of her baggage more--and the extra weight as the kids grew added to her baggage's diet.

We stuffed all 4 of us in each of those airplanes, plus a 67 lb. dog, plus a parakeet in a travel cage, just about every time we traveled. We were at gross at take off each time, with full fuel on the 182 and fuel to the tabs on the TR182. We sorta looked like the airborne Clampetts. Ha! Maybe that's why I can still stuff more into my P172D than most people can into a full size pickup! (those here who have camped near me know that to be true)

But would I recommend that? No. I really didn't plan for how big the kids got in what seemed like overnight. A whole lot of arguments would have been eliminated, if we'd had more cargo capacity, both volume and weight. Wife 1 would start her packing efforts a couple of weeks before each trip, and I would weigh her pile daily. About the 3rd day, I'd have to tell her that she was already overweight (her baggage, not her). You ever try to tell a woman who is used to changing clothes 3 times a day that she needs to leave some of it at home? That there are such things as washing machines at the destination? That she really doesn't need a set of hot curlers, a curling iron, and a backup curling iron? Or that since all of the clothes say "wash and wear" on the labels, she can leave her iron at home?

So with 3 kiddies, camping in mind, and long term plans for skis and floats, I'd certainly recommend a 206, already equipped for floats. It'll take awhile to find one that is good enough but won't ruin you financially. Stay away from a turbo--much lower TBO, much more maintenance, and other than high altitude capability, not all that more useful. If you can find a "Super Skylane", i.e., a P206, that's nice, because it has 2 passenger doors and a kiddie door like a 205 has. Unless of course, you'd prefer the double doors in the back of a U206, for loading ease.

One other thing: none of these high utility haulers, whether 182, 205, 206, or Cherokee 6, are as fun to fly as a 152 or 172. They all are more truck-like, especially the 205 and 206. That makes them pretty stable, but the fun factor goes down. All of the 6 place airplanes have huge W&B envelopes, so you have to learn that with a forward CG and light, it's a completely different airplane from when it's aft CG and heavy--and it'll bite you if you don't do a W&B at heavy weights.

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Re: cessna

Get an inexpensive 4 seater for now and as the kids age up get a 2 seater and teach one or more of them how to fly. As they agree up they didn't want to be with their parents anyway. 2 planes is the only reasonable solution. Our get both planes now and have your wife get her license. You can critique each other's landings.
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Re: cessna

A few recommendations for 206 on here. I was quite surprised at the low usable load on a 206, especially on amphibs. Those floats are damn heavy. My mechanic showed me a beautiful plane that the owner is going to sell because he bought it to seat five but they could never get five people into W&B. I don't remember the exact number, but it was pretty close to my 182 on amphibs.
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Re: cessna

Might also look in to early 210s. They aren't super rugged BC planes, but will get you in and out of many Idaho strips. They are pretty roomy inside like 206s.
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Re: cessna

Get an inexpensive 4 seater for now and as the kids age up get a 2 seater and teach one or more of them how to fly. As they agree up they didn't want to be with their parents anyway. 2 planes is the only reasonable solution. Our get both planes now and have your wife get her license. You can critique each other's landings.





Funny you would mention that, I just had this conversation with my wife yesterday and honestly I think this is the best solution.
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Re: cessna

Scolopax wrote:Might also look in to early 210s. They aren't super rugged BC planes, but will get you in and out of many Idaho strips. They are pretty roomy inside like 206s.


This is what I was thinking. I saw one yesterday in Garden Valley, a strut braced model. At a distance I almost mistook it for an early 206 until I noticed the gear doors. They usually change hands for very reasonable prices. Skywagons.com has a 1962 for sale listed at $49.5K currently, which is a lot of plane for that kind of money.
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Re: cessna

IncipientSpin wrote:
Scolopax wrote:Might also look in to early 210s. They aren't super rugged BC planes, but will get you in and out of many Idaho strips. They are pretty roomy inside like 206s.


This is what I was thinking. I saw one yesterday in Garden Valley, a strut braced model. At a distance I almost mistook it for an early 206 until I noticed the gear doors. They usually change hands for very reasonable prices. Skywagons.com has a 1962 for sale listed at $49.5K currently, which is a lot of plane for that kind of money.
The early ones like the 62 are narrow like a 180 and only seat 4. Also have the same smaller flap as the 205/182 and a gross weight of only 2950. I think that changed in 64 or 65, but I need to double check my service manual. The changes brought the wider cabin, bigger flap that electric instead of hydraulic, and more room. 6 seats came a couple years later yet.
If you do buy one make sure you check out the hrs on the gear saddles. They need to be replaced every 1000 hrs due to an AD. Usually they end up for sale pretty cheap when it's time for this to happen.
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Re: cessna

Ahh, didn't realize they had a reoccurring AD. I really think the 205 is honestly the ticket for his application.
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Re: cessna

A1Skinner wrote:
IncipientSpin wrote:
Scolopax wrote:Might also look in to early 210s. They aren't super rugged BC planes, but will get you in and out of many Idaho strips. They are pretty roomy inside like 206s.


This is what I was thinking. I saw one yesterday in Garden Valley, a strut braced model. At a distance I almost mistook it for an early 206 until I noticed the gear doors. They usually change hands for very reasonable prices. Skywagons.com has a 1962 for sale listed at $49.5K currently, which is a lot of plane for that kind of money.
The early ones like the 62 are narrow like a 180 and only seat 4. Also have the same smaller flap as the 205/182 and a gross weight of only 2950. I think that changed in 64 or 65, but I need to double check my service manual. The changes brought the wider cabin, bigger flap that electric instead of hydraulic, and more room. 6 seats came a couple years later yet.
If you do buy one make sure you check out the hrs on the gear saddles. They need to be replaced every 1000 hrs due to an AD. Usually they end up for sale pretty cheap when it's time for this to happen.


1960-1961 210 is narrow like a 180 and has a fast back fuselage. 1962 they were a wide body and Omni vision. 1964 was the first year of the IO-520 and first year that the rear 5/6 seats were an option.
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Re: cessna

There's an early 206 (with the big cargo doors!) for sale in Anchorage for $65,000
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Re: cessna

robw56 wrote:
A1Skinner wrote:
IncipientSpin wrote:
Scolopax wrote:Might also look in to early 210s. They aren't super rugged BC planes, but will get you in and out of many Idaho strips. They are pretty roomy inside like 206s.


This is what I was thinking. I saw one yesterday in Garden Valley, a strut braced model. At a distance I almost mistook it for an early 206 until I noticed the gear doors. They usually change hands for very reasonable prices. Skywagons.com has a 1962 for sale listed at $49.5K currently, which is a lot of plane for that kind of money.
The early ones like the 62 are narrow like a 180 and only seat 4. Also have the same smaller flap as the 205/182 and a gross weight of only 2950. I think that changed in 64 or 65, but I need to double check my service manual. The changes brought the wider cabin, bigger flap that electric instead of hydraulic, and more room. 6 seats came a couple years later yet.
If you do buy one make sure you check out the hrs on the gear saddles. They need to be replaced every 1000 hrs due to an AD. Usually they end up for sale pretty cheap when it's time for this to happen.


1960-1961 210 is narrow like a 180 and has a fast back fuselage. 1962 they were a wide body and Omni vision. 1964 was the first year of the IO-520 and first year that the rear 5/6 seats were an option.
Right you are Rob. 64 or D model was also the first year of the bigger flap like the 206.
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