Saw this 180 take off the other day and got to wondering why Cessna makes better noise than a Maule?
Only thing I can figure,
#1...Cessna's have bigger balls.
#2...Continentals are superior.
Oh hell, burp.......I better go to bed. LOL

I have a Cessna 185 with an 86 inch three blade prop. When I go to the seaplane base for fuel (on the edge of a small town) everyone says they knew I was there. That noise just resonates off the water. Happy to live in a part of the world where the sound of an airplane is accepted and even appreciated by most.

Steve

I could not agree with you more Terry! Those maules sound like a little pussy cat. But the skywagons roar like a lion. oh how I love my 88 inch prop in the morning. At johnson creek, 1 maule guy said to a skywagon guy and I quote, " you cessna guys are going to get us kicked out of here if you don't wait to take off until at least 9".

Boy this thread is not going to get us anywhere.... I think I hear a maule coming...

Terry, you realize we are now neck deep in a large pile of $?!$ posting this. We deserve what we now have coming to us...truth is going to really hurt those maule guys.

Akt

Well, I am gonna step right into a 'deep pool of disagreement' (shit) here.
At JC I was NOT favorably impressed by the big displacement/supersonic prop tips by the (what I consider to be) inconsiderate pilots who had lots of airstrip and a cool morning and had NO reason to use 'full painful noise' power in that situation-all the way out of the valley.
I don't care if it is a Maule, Cessna, Lyc, or Cont, THAT is being a BAD NEIGHBOR! When you are sitting around with a group of PILOTS and about half put their fingers in their ears just before the noisemaker goes by......well, that makes a statement to me.
If you have that kind of power/prop, and need all those horses to get out of where you are safely.....I think we can agree that it is acceptable. But when it is not necessary-and their are lots of people around-it is time to be considerate and back off enough to take the 'edge' off of the 'sound storm'.....
It is not just in the mountains/backcountry.....
If we want the ability to continue to have GA favorable relationships with the general population, we need to take a critical look at ourselves, and how obnoxious some of the high powered seaplane pilots are with their noise profile/lack of consideration of others!! On a glassy lake early morning that noise will travel a LONG ways.......and the pilot chooses to use full power all the way on step, un-stuck, and climb out when there is no shortage of lake (and neighbors). That reaches/influences people who didn't move by an airport, who like lakes and nature........and they think the worst of Seaplanes/GA.
Same with our airports that were there first, and the neighbors moved in after....We NEED to be considerate with our noise and when we can-be a better neighbor....

Rant-off
lc

Inactive Seaplane pilot.....

Dear Cessna 180 & 185 Pilots,

First of all, I think Cessna 180 & 185s are great airplanes. That said they can be obnoxiously noisy on takeoff if the propeller RPM isn't reduced shortly after takeoff. It's kind of a Harley Davidson thing for some Skywagon pilots "look at me".

Maybe someday with practice you too will obtain the superior piloting skill, catlike reflexes, and good looks in order to fly a Maule.

Little Cub is right on the money FLY NEIGHBORLY or you will loose access to some backcountry airstrips for everyone.

James

All Bark and No bite........


jusss joken people......


We all know the Maule is a great plane and well so is the Cessna.....

Wup said it. We are just ribbing here...I do realize that America is just not even kind of like Alaska. I was raised on lake hood / Spenard lake. Probably, if not the largest sea plane / bush plane base in the world. Every morning in the summer sounded like a war...personally it's the sound of music to me.

I go to the Air shows to see and hear the supersonic jets. The loud noise I think is just awesome! I do realize however it's just not for everyone however. That's why those guys buy a maul...

I do understand. I do try to fly neighborly as we all should.

Akt

As I USED to say, and now my 21 year old son says. If it's to loud your to old! I must be getting old This comes from a guy who used to get tickets for open headers on the street, drag pipes on the Harley, no silencer on the 2 strokes.

I still like to hear the 88" once a day. It is probably like my loud shit. Sounds better on it with the pipes pointed at someone else. I have never taken off in a 180-185 with a 88"

I do want to keep places open so I try to be reasonable.

If Maules didn't exist I would probably fly a 180-185. Then I could take my 6 burner gas stove to Johnson Creek and go to Mile High after lunch.

I like the barn doors on my M7. I really like going to NAPA National Airplane Parts Association to buy CHEAP!! Maule parts. Or Ace Hardware. Spinner for a 180- 4000 dollars. For a M7-1600 dollars

And last but not least and this is for you Terry you Rebel rouser. Cessna 182 converted to 180 $50,000.00, gas to Condon lunch $200.00, lunch $20.00................know where this is going?????????????

HAVING A MAULE PILOT SIT AT THE CONTROLS WHILE YOU HAND PROP PRICELESS!

Good thread, even though it was started as a joke, and I'm not taking it any other way. But, it brings up some good points.
Let me start by saying that I love airplane noise.....it does not matter where I am, if an airplane flies over, I just have to stick my head outside and usually I can identify it just by the sound, I have been like this since I was a kid. JC was an interesting experience for my family. We usually would put the kids to bed about the time the evening arrivals and departures started up. It was no big deal, but we really appreciated the guys that pulled the prop out just a little when they could and did not scare the kids. The kids love airplane noise also, especially after being around so many of them all week. My heart swells everytime my 1 year old hears an airplane and points to the sky making airplane noise. But, the long prop airplanes, especially the ones turning 2850rpm are down right annoying. The supersonic tips are earsplitting, and I had to cover my ears otherwise it hurt in a setting like JC. I tried to cover my kids ears as I felt the noise was at a harmful level with some of the airplanes.
I came home after JC with a new outlook on how I fly my constant speed big bore continental. As soon as I can, I start pulling the prop back and if light, I don't need full RPM. When I come back into the pattern, I keep the rpm down until the manifold pressure has dropped enough that I don't get full rpm when putting the prop in. I don't make all the noise, and if I need to go around, I still have full power. I think that the "coolness" factor of making lots of prop noise has about run it's course and I am starting to get the impression that even pilots are looking at other pilots who make lots of noise as ignorant or as useing poor piloting technique.

My wife has always liked C-180 and 185's and we had been considering moving into one of these airplanes when we outgrow our Pacer. After being around the high RPM, long prop airplanes at JC, she came home with a complete loss of interest in the Cessna's and said she could get over the looks of a Maule, Lol!

We as pilots are a close group of people. We offer to help when we can in search and rescues. We fly out those who need help and at times put yourself and planes in danger with out hesitation. We pay a higher cost for fuel and insurance and not to mention maintenance coast as well. But we seam to be one of the first when we fly over head that we make noise so we should not fly before 6 am and no latter then 8 pm in some locations. Its ok for some one to drive there car down a road with the radio blasting to something that is just loud noise. So I say make the noise we as pilots have rights to. Funny people want to live next to a air strip then they complain about the noise. It only takes one who is not happy until they shut us down. When I hear a plane fly over head I always look up with a smile.

Ken in Alaska

OregonMaule wrote:
And last but not least and this is for you Terry you Rebel rouser. Cessna 182 converted to 180 $50,000.00, gas to Condon lunch $200.00, lunch $20.00................know where this is going?????????????

HAVING A MAULE PILOT SIT AT THE CONTROLS WHILE YOU HAND PROP PRICELESS!

Haha, throw in another $500 for a starter and you end up with an expensive lunch!
I knew I should have asked your buddy Mike to hold the brakes.

You guys are right about being considerate to others with the noise.
But it's like pulling up to the start line in your hot rod with a crowd watching and only using half throttle.
My wife keeps saying I need to grow up?

Littlecub wrote:
the big displacement/supersonic prop tips by the (what I consider to be) inconsiderate pilots who had lots of airstrip and a cool morning and had NO reason to use 'full painful noise' power in that situation-all the way out of the valley.

If we want the ability to continue to have GA favorable relationships with the general population, we need to take a critical look at ourselves, and how obnoxious some of the high powered seaplane pilots are with their noise profile/lack of consideration of others!!

Absolutely right on the money! Pay attention you guys, this person has hit the nail on the head. It affects EVERY one of us and our ability to fly.

Back when the 180/185 was designed and built, there were not 1/10th of the number of major threats to general aviation as there are now. There were not 1/100th of the little microscopic bureaucrat rodent city managers or coincilmembers who would gladly vote for an airport closure (to make room for yet another shopping mall or cookie-cutter housing tract) as there are now. Back then the Sierra Club looked at a 185 as a useful mode of transport to get their activists or squirrel shit bio-measurement teams out into the field. Back then a 185 was not a threat to the habitat of the Western Spotted Cockroach. Back then, the world was flat and a 185 was on the sunny side of it.

I got bad news for anyone who is still living in the flat-earth era of general aviation. It's over. We're under attack from every direction, at least in the lower 48, and the battle is being fought in the hearts and minds of average voters who live down the street from the airport and those same rodent councilmembers. Last night I spoke at length with the president of RAF about proposal writing and grant funding, to fight this exact battle. There WILL be noise measurements and research done on this subject, and there will HAVE to be participation and concessions and better decisions made by the chimpanzee holding the propeller pitch knob.

If MY airport gets closed because of one too many sonic propellers, I'll stand there and help the FAA re-set the pitch stops on every 185, 210 and Bonanza myself. Don't these chimps know that the thrust efficiency lost by the shock wave over the prop pretty much cancels out the extra couple of horsepower from the RPM? One of the ideas being talked about now is a small LED light or indicator that gets info from air density sensors and RPM and prop diameter, and lets the pilot know when the tips are about to go sonic.

oops...

I have a question, when a prop tip, or anything for that matter approaches the speed of sound isn’t it like hitting a break, creating drag, there must be a performance limiting velocity / RPM for any given propeller diameter .
What I’m asking here is, when the prop is screaming, going supersonic, aren’t you loosing or wasting energy?
I’m only swinging a 78” but I turn 2800, it feels like my limiting forward velocity @ 2800 is around 95 mph, any faster than that I loose FPM climb rate till I back off the governor, I think that the prop is going supersonic and I am loosing efficiency. Any comments?

Terry wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:
But it's like pulling up to the start line in your hot rod with a crowd watching and only using half throttle.
My wife keeps saying I need to grow up?

I completely understand!

172heavy wrote:What I’m asking here is, when the prop is screaming, going supersonic, aren’t you loosing or wasting energy?

Yes, you are probably losing energy. In some cases you still have a little more thrust because the extra RPM overcomes the lost propeller thrust, but in many cases you wind up with less overall thrust.

In the F-1 racers at Reno, you get much more extra power by turning an O-200 Cessna 150 engine at 4200 RPM than you lose by having the tips supersonic. So there's a gain favoring RPM. In a whole lot of other situations the overall balance shifts away from favoring RPM.

In other words, that horrific, ear-splitting, baby-crying, camper-annoying, GA ENEMY-creating, screaming noise requires a lot of energy to make. Where do you think that energy comes from? It's subtracted from the energy available to propel the airplane forward.

The only problem is that you cannot hear that noise inside the airplane. So you sit there fat dumb and happy not knowing how it sounds outside the airplane. There should be a loudspeaker in the airplane that duplicates the noise as it is heard from outside the propeller arc

I've seen plenty of 180/185 long prop takeoffs...meh. We all know loud does not necessarily equal powerful.

The most impressive takeoffs of the JC 2011 weekend, in my opinion, were Courierguy. That guy is a flying ninja with his Swiss pipe! You'll never hear him coming OR going. I want that stealth action so I can sneak into off-airport places without getting noticed.

Steve Knopp has a nice prop tip speed calculator on his website.http://pponk.com/

I usually pull back the prop on my 180 about 50 RPM for takeoff to be a better neighbor. It doesn't take very much to reduce noise a lot.

JW

Like Zane says, quiet is the new cool. I completely agree that there's something very fun about "flying under the radar".

Seriously guys, as a long time dirt bike rider in New England, I know the effects of being too loud. It's not a matter of if you will lose your potential landing/take off areas, it's just a matter of when. If we don't all band together to self police and limit the noise, then we will lose some space. You can argue that it's just a New England thing, and why the hell would this guy choose to fly in such a crowded space. If you think that, then take a look at Google Earth and see how many folks live close to Carrabassett Valley, ME and the hundreds of square miles to the northeast of there, where I do much of my flying. At the risk of sounding preachy....

I'm a fan of raw sounding power. What would the space shuttle launch be like if you couldn't HEAR IT, feel it and see it. Just seeing something sucks sometimes. BUT, I agree with most of the above comments, loud and proud 100% of the time is not needed. Understand your situation and adjust accordingly. I'm sure the folks of Yellow Pine have heard enough 180/185's for a lifetime, a Swiss Ninja is probably a welcoming sound.

On the other hand, some of the best flying humor comes when Terry drinks.