Hi Guys,

I have a 1966 185E with stock cowling. No landing/taxi lights holes on the cowling, they are located on the wings.
I have the opportunity to get a good serviceable cowling (better than mine) from a 185F model. So it has the holes for the lights which I think is nice because I am interested in the Aeroleds lights with the pulse and wig wag option. My leading edge skin on the wing is also about to be replaced so I could get rid of the old lights on the wings.
I am just wondering if the newer cowling will fit on my airplane and if it is an acceptable MOD? I guess it is a different part number but the shape is the same...

Thanks for your help!

Acceptable to us? I like the wing lights and I am guessing Cessna moved them to cowling strictly to save on manufacturing costs (reason for most running changes manufacturers make to a design in production, I am guessing).

Kyle Fosso with ARC did this to his 170 IIRC. You might be able to ask him on FB.

If I recall correctly, he cut a hole in the OG nose cap and installed Support Assembly Landing Light LH P/N: 1652012-9 & RH P/N: 6. You'll probably be able to find these parts on eBay or at Skywagon City or at one of the big salvage yards. YMMV


Instead of spending a fortune replacing your cowling, you could spend that money on the nice Stene Quasar CX tips while deleting the landing light in the leading edge. it looks a little bit cleaner that way imo. George Mandes did basically that (with RMD tips at the time) on his super nice 185.

Conventional lights in the cowl seldom work for very long. Maybe the newer LED stuff would fare better though. Not one of Cessna’s better ideas.

400888 wrote:Hi Guys,

I have a 1966 185E with stock cowling. No landing/taxi lights holes on the cowling, they are located on the wings.
I have the opportunity to get a good serviceable cowling (better than mine) from a 185F model. So it has the holes for the lights which I think is nice because I am interested in the Aeroleds lights with the pulse and wig wag option. My leading edge skin on the wing is also about to be replaced so I could get rid of the old lights on the wings.
I am just wondering if the newer cowling will fit on my airplane and if it is an acceptable MOD? I guess it is a different part number but the shape is the same...

Thanks for your help!

You have the best cowl, fix it or leave it alone. This mod is nothing but pain and heart ache for you down the road. 180/185s already have issues with a forward CG these days due to technology. Adding anymore weight to the nose no matter how much is not worth it. All you are doing is increasing your stall speed. Plus removing the cowl now becomes even more difficult.

I too would vote for tip lights, hands down. You can use conventional or LED bulbs in the RMD tips, or Willie's Quasar tips.

As noted above, you've already got a good cowling, so don't mess it up. Although cowling removal is just a quick connect cord....no big deal. That said, incandescent cowling lights won't last long in the cowling. You will need to go LED, which are more expensive. Incandescent lights will last a long time in the tips.

MTV

thanks for your comments guys! I'll keep and give some work to the old good cowling. Somebody talked about deleting my leading edge leading light if I go with Quasar tips lights. Does that really qualify as a landing light for night flying? thanks!

400888 wrote:thanks for your comments guys! I'll keep and give some work to the old good cowling. Somebody talked about deleting my leading edge leading light if I go with Quasar tips lights. Does that really qualify as a landing light for night flying? thanks!

Yes, one light is landing other is taxi. And, there’s a pair of RMD tips for sale on this forum now.

MTV

One of the worst “improvements” Cessna made over the years was putting the lights in the cowl. Only the reliability of LEDs has mitigated this screw up.

I don’t like the glare on the back of the prop from the cowl lights. Is it less with the wing leading edge lights?

I don't have any sort of illustration to support this assertion, however my gut tells me that LE lights or better tip lights would also offer a wider field of coverage over cowl lights. I'm afraid of the dark so the more lighting the better would be my desired outcome of any change.

since you mentioned wanting wig-wag, wingtip lights will also be far more effective for recognition with that feature. I also concur that LEDs are a must in the cowl position. I had numerous GE lights burn out during the flight after checking good on the ground. I probably only averaged 10-15 hours of flight time on the bulbs. I imagine that time is dependent on how smooth your engine is running, but regardless, they won't last too long. I've had LEDs in the cowling now for years and close to 800 hours without a problem.

If illuminating the runway is your goal, I bet cowl lights with wingtips would be the ticket; you'd just have to decide if the weight is worth it. Regarding nose heavy 180/185s, when loaded, my nose isn't heavy enough. I've got an up'd gross weight, and it is hard to actually be able to use max gross due to rear CG. Guess I need to haul gold in the front passenger seat.

400888 wrote:thanks for your comments guys! I'll keep and give some work to the old good cowling. Somebody talked about deleting my leading edge leading light if I go with Quasar tips lights. Does that really qualify as a landing light for night flying? thanks!

Depends on what you like.
I like the stock wingtips on my 53 C180,
so if I wanted more lighting, I would add another leading edge light assembly on the RH wing,
rather than wingtip lighting.
Nice thing about the leading edge arrangement is that there are two lights in each.
You could have a landing light & a taxi light on each side,
and rig whichever one you want on each side to wig-wag.
I have a standard light & an LED light in my single leading edge assembly,
the LED is set up as a wig-wag (but technically just a wig, I guess).

400888,

I don't think there is an FAA requirement to have a landing light for night ops. Just like there is no requirement to have a com radio. Position lights, yes. But landing light no. So the Stene tip lights would be every bit as legal as your wing LE lights currently are. Since in each case they are officially a convenience rather than a requirement.

You can do wing mounted lights on BOTH sides. Best setup ever. Cowl lights are a pain in practice. Quasar tips look nice, but are not approved to replace landing lights as far as I know.

WorkingWarbirds wrote:You can do wing mounted lights on BOTH sides. Best setup ever. Cowl lights are a pain in practice. Quasar tips look nice, but are not approved to replace landing lights as far as I know.

As noted above, landing/taxi lights are not a requirement for night operations under Part 91. If you are operating "for hire", then they are required.

In any case, Stene's Quasar tips are STC'd, and I'd bet they are STC'd replacements for leading edge lights.

MTV

hotrod180 wrote:
I like the stock wingtips on my 53 C180,
so if I wanted more lighting, I would add another leading edge light assembly on the RH wing,
rather than wingtip lighting.
Nice thing about the leading edge arrangement is that there are two lights in each.
You could have a landing light & a taxi light on each side,
and rig whichever one you want on each side to wig-wag..

When I last recovered my cub I did exactly this. The outboard lights are aimed as landing lights, the inboards are taxi lights. The outboards are run through a max pulse which allows many combinations of flash, as well as always on.

When all 4 lights are solid on, it's almost like a mini spray plane and I have no problem landing it on an unlit dirt strip.

I will do this exact set up on my 180 when I ever decide whether or not I'l add a Sportsman to the Robertson wing.

Take care, Rob


And a semi related side note, there's a lot of hype surrounding LED's. I would caution anyone contemplating LED's for off airport work to study their candle power compared to good incandescents. Good LED's will put out more lumens, but rarely even come close in candlepower, which is the measure that matters when you need 'reach out there' light. FWIW....Working off field at night is where most of my day job occurs.


Take care, Rob

One reason to change to the F model cowl would be the far simpler airbox/throttle body arrangement of the later models, but you can do that with or without the lights. It is also opening a can of worms that I might do for my own bird if I had an older wagon, but I don't know if I'd want to take it on, and the subsequent bill I'd have to pass on to the owner, for anyone else's airplane.