This Chicco seat anchors in place well with just a lap belt. No discomfort to the occupant with the way the belt loops through the chassis of the seat. We’ve taken a bunch of trips in the 170 with it.

https://www.target.com/p/chicco-nextfit ... A-50496716

Here it is installed in the jump seat of my 32 year old van with a lap belt.

I just like old stuff I guess. Also doesn’t hurt that it has a horizontally opposed engine. [emoji16]

chedrick wrote:Ill add one other thing I ran across when I was researching this a couple years ago; Make sure if the kid is forward facing in the front seat (or only seat in a 150 etc.) that they can't block the control movement with their feet. I read one guys story who was on short final and the kid put their legs up and prevented him from being able to pull the yoke back and had to go around. Wrong timing could make for a rough landing if you cant flare.

This reminds me of flying with my oldest when she was a toddler. I would remove the stick from the Luscombe so there was room for the forward facing car seat without blocking the controls. She could reach the throttle with her foot though which occasionally made landings a little sporty. I miss those days.

BazzLow wrote:
Otherwise when they get older there are 4 point adapters marketed towards commercial travel but would likely work when they're a little older:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/pi ... ame=sp_atf

Without a 5th (crotch) strap I would be very leery of these harnesses. Kids can often slide out the bottom of the belts as the angles of the lap belts are not correct to fit their smaller bodies. I agree that the are better than nothing, but a booster seat is preferable.

cowpilot wrote:In 2013 I removed an 18 month old toddler from the wreckage after a mid-air on short final at Johnson Creek. I don't think too many days go by that I don't think of him. He was right seat, in some type of booster with a shoulder harness. He had slipped right through and hit the panel. Serious head trauma. He may have left this world that day, but he will never me. I don't know the answer to your question. There really isn't a safe way to transport kids in a small aircraft IMHO. I would suggest the back seat and a good car seat as a minimum. Flying with kids is just a blast. To share what we love so much with them is almost magical. All I can say is do everything you can t keep them as safe as possible if you decide to take them with you.

Brent

Yeah Oliver had the CARES system. The problem is the seat didn’t lock in the upright position so, on impact, everything went forward. The NTSB full report had some good info on it and pics showing it with a dummy in the actual seat. Sad deal. I talk to Ron quite a bit. You might like to know that they are doing well and he bought a 150 a year or two ago.

Hope all is well Brent...now back to the subject on hand.

I’ll secone all that Zane and Rob have said. My biggest issue is, although the FAA supposedly made it easier to install harnesses with that letter they issued, if you have to drill a whole it’s no longer a minor alteration and you have to go the field approval route or the STC route. And since there is no STC for the middle or rear seats on my plane...that leaves me with the field approval route.

The parts manual for a 205 shows harnesses for all the seats. I know that the rivnut for the front two seats are there because you use it to install the BAS harnesses. Does anyone know if the other rivnuts would have been installed for the middle and rear seats?

I’ve long wanted to get shoulder harnesses for my kids in the back but without an existing anchor point, your looking at a field approval.

I was also going to add, the FAA at one point said two people could occupy one seat and share a belt if the weight didn’t exceed 170 pounds. But in the last 5 years or so they modified it to where it was more vague and basically did the PIC would have to determine for their aircraft what weight would be the appropriate limitation.

Like has been said before, better than nothing but still maybe not a great solution.

propeller26 wrote:

BazzLow wrote:
Otherwise when they get older there are 4 point adapters marketed towards commercial travel but would likely work when they're a little older:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/pi ... ame=sp_atf

Without a 5th (crotch) strap I would be very leery of these harnesses. Kids can often slide out the bottom of the belts as the angles of the lap belts are not correct to fit their smaller bodies. I agree that the are better than nothing, but a booster seat is preferable.

Those might not work with the Atlee's
Here is my 4 year old in the Atlee, and the backrest is too low for this addition, I wish they worked though, I am a big fan of shoulder harnesses

Another point in light of the helo accident in East River, NYC. I just bought a seatbelt cutter. http://www.rescuetech1.com/seatbeltcutter.aspx

BazzLow wrote:Another point in light of the helo accident in East River, NYC. I just bought a seatbelt cutter. http://www.rescuetech1.com/seatbeltcutter.aspx

It's not a bad idea. My survival vest has a blunt-tip diving knife for similar purposes. The main trick is keeping it somewhere you can retrieve from a seated position, possibly with your legs pinned or side pockets inaccessible. For that reason it sits on my vest over my chest where I or anyone else can reach it. The downside is that my vest isn't on me unless I'm over inhospitable terrain so urban flying is still a gap. I guess I could clip it to the BAS shoulder harness or something, but then it's staying in the plane if I need to get out quick.

I have a folding knife in a nylon sheath tie-wrapped to the upper LH v-brace.

Zane,

Thanks for the tip on the Cosco Serena car seats. Just about have our 206 flying and I will buy a couple of them. What do you guys with 205/185/206 do for seats with 2 adults and 3 kids? My kids are 1,3,and 5. Thinking about putting the 3&5 in the rear seats and leaving out a middle seat. advice?

I don’t have kids but since getting married 4 years ago I have inherited two. They are getting to the age where it won’t be long before they have rug rats of their own. Some good info here and things for me to ponder down the road.


Cow pilot, that was hard to read and I wouldn’t wish those types of memories on anyone.

behindpropellers wrote:Zane,

Thanks for the tip on the Cosco Serena car seats. Just about have our 206 flying and I will buy a couple of them. What do you guys with 205/185/206 do for seats with 2 adults and 3 kids? My kids are 1,3,and 5. Thinking about putting the 3&5 in the rear seats and leaving out a middle seat. advice?

My kids were not much older than yours when we bought our 205. We have the rear door so I figured my oldest was able to open it and was the most self sufficient, so he went back there. The other two were in the middle. Boosters or car seat as appropriate. We left out the 6th seat for space for more gear.

Not a Cessna but I’m planning to put my 5 and 7 y/o in the third row and my 2y/o in the middle row next to the door. One middle row seat removed for baggage space. That way if we have to get out in a hurry I’m not trying to reach over the baggage to get to my kid. Seems like a no brainer but it will make loading gear much harder so there is some temptation to stick the kid next to the interior wall the and baggage next to the door.

behindpropellers wrote:Zane,

Thanks for the tip on the Cosco Serena car seats. Just about have our 206 flying and I will buy a couple of them. What do you guys with 205/185/206 do for seats with 2 adults and 3 kids? My kids are 1,3,and 5. Thinking about putting the 3&5 in the rear seats and leaving out a middle seat. advice?

Similar to what others have said, I put our oldest (8-12 years old) in the third row and the younger in the second row who are 3 and 6 years younger. I took out the left third row seat and used that area for more cargo. More difficult to load cargo through the U206 cargo door and over my son’s seat, but I didn’t want a bunch of cargo between him and the door. Worked for us for a lot of hours.

Brett

BazzLow wrote:I have nearly 2yo twins but still haven't worked out one problem. The car seats can be held down two ways. First is by feeding the lap belt through the seat; however, the buckle ends up under the car seat right behind the kids back and is very uncomfortable. Second is to use straps that came with the seat but they don't reach the belt anchors.

The old baby car seats were fine and I'll post again if I figure this out.

Otherwise when they get older there are 4 point adapters marketed towards commercial travel but would likely work when they're a little older:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/pi ... ame=sp_atf

The trick with the buckle in the middle of the back is to shorten and/or lengthen the inboard and outboard seatbelts at the attach point so you can buckle the seat in without the buckle going inside the frame of the car seat. I had to shorten the inboard (the one with the tab) so it's about as short as it can go, then I adjusted the outboard (buckle) so it just barely reached the other side. I have to kneel on the seat to get the buckle to latch, and then when I snug it up tight the buckle is flush up against the car seat frame and it's in there tight. It's kind of a pain and I don't know that I can use that seat for a normal sized adult, but that's my Flight Engineer's seat until I can put her in a booster up front.

[img]https://backcountrypilot.org/images/originalphotos/830/5905/4ab6411d174e7f478aba98b5.jpg/img]