Closing arguments are tomorrow. Here is an article with links to court transcripts:

http://www.examiner.com/article/quiet-skies-group-takes-longmont-airport-skydive-company-to-court-seeks-closure

All this "noise" about noise is always a hassle for existing airports. Even as little traffic as Laramie's airport had while I was on its airport board, and as far as it is away from any housing areas, we still got complaints, especially if the wind shifted to require any jet traffic to take off to the east.

I have friends who have decided to build in a high-end residential subdivision which is the source of the complaints which led to the voluntary noise abatement procedures at Fort Collins/Loveland. When I joked with the wife part of the couple that I'd wave at her whenever she heard my airplane go over her new house, she actually was surprised--apparently no one had told her that the flight path for 33 is directly over the subdivision!

That's another point. Even if buyers are required to sign a document acknowledging the existence of the nearby airport and its noise, invariably they don't read it, as it's part of the huge number of documents that they sign at the time of closing. That, plus being told about the airport and actually experiencing its noise are 2 different things.

And of course, there are those nutsos out there who just don't like airplane noise. How can that be? I look forward to being awakened when the first airplane of the day takes off, when I'm in my tent at OSH each year--much better than any alarm clock, right?

Cary

Several years ago I was talking to someone as we shared a chairlift ride up bogus basin ski area, he said he was leaving early because they were framing in his house today. I asked him where it was and it is near the west end on the runway at Caldwell (EUL). When I commented about noise he replied that was all taken care of. They had a homeowners association formed, and a lawyer lined up, when they got about 1/2 the lots build they would file a lawsuit against the city over the noise and close the airport. The 2 dozen pilots that flew out of there could take their little toy airplanes and go find someplace else to play. I didn't bother to tell him the second busiest airport in the state was not going to close because he built a house off the end of the runway, he could find out the hard way. The subdivision is mostly built now, and the airport is still open.

Cary wrote: I look forward to being awakened when the first airplane of the day takes off, when I'm in my tent at OSH each year--much better than any alarm clock, right?

Cary

I've woke to the sound of an round engine agcat one morning. great sound.

lesuther wrote:

Ace007 wrote:The new Longmont airport manager sent us an email last week essentially saying to go to another airport to do touch and goes.

This is interesting. Would you elaborate?

"During the later times of the day, you may want to consider venturing to an airport that is less noise sensitive for multiple local operations during late evening or night time operations (or even aircraft that have that noisier profile). "

Aha. He must mean he wants you to go to Boulder, just minutes away, where your pattern will likely take you conveniently right over the Gunbarrel folks who are the source of over half the complaints.

I think the new manager has a subtle sense of humor...and I'm laughing.

Funny stuff aside, nobody should leave Longmont to do T&G's. Nobody can please everyone, and the fact that this is the first time intense discontent has popped up in a place like Boulder County is a testament to the fact that the airport is seen as a great asset to the community. The city council and the public clearly question the merits of the lawsuit. We will just have to wait and see what comes out of the courthouse now.

CQS has already successfully shut down the Boulder skydiving operation - forcing them to move to Glenwood Springs.

No way is Boulder less sensitive to noise than Longmont. But it's always the same 2 idiots that complain any time any plane is north of Jay road in the pattern. They complain about every plane.

Good news is however that this year had the lowest level of noise complaints in like 10 years. Yay for us - LMO taking it for the team!

Old friend of mine who was an early member of the survivalist movement who is now deceased once said the only redeeming feature of Boulder, CO is Paladin Press. He may have been right.

There is always the antidote: Citizens Against Citizens for Quiet Skies
https://m.facebook.com/pages/Citizens-Against-Citizens-for-Quiet-Skies/400414700081888

I'm finishing up a second 4 year term (sentence) on my local airport board.

The problem is that smart people know better than to get into politics (or don't have time) which leaves the door wide open for the whack jobs to control our government.

I agree with the sentiment (anybody crazy enough to spend their own money to campaign for this job is too crazy to trust managing public funds ) but smart people who know better than to get involved shouldn't whine about the outcome when they leave all the work to somebody else. If you don't have time to run for office, write an opposing-point-of-view letter to the newspaper and go to the public council meeting and exercise your right to speak. They sit there stone-faced while you're speaking, but they are listening...

gbflyer wrote:Old friend of mine who was an early member of the survivalist movement who is now deceased once said the only redeeming feature of Boulder, CO is Paladin Press. He may have been right.

All a matter of perspective and attitude. He could very well have been wrong as hell. But at any rate, your late friend probably would have approved of this latest piece of news below (as I do):

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_28049328/boulder-police-da-continue-investigate-fatal-shooting-pima

Could be. I personally never spent much time there. Dropped my sis off at CU. That was about it. Seemed like it wasn't quite the Colorado I grew up in, but we of the W. Slope tend to not be quite as cerebral as the city folk.

When I first started flying out of Boulder in 1990 it was a zoo and Longmont was a graveyard. That quickly reversed and by the mid 90's Boulder was a graveyard and Longmont was a zoo. There are lots of theories on why that happened but difficult to say exactly why. I know many Boulder residents who keep their planes at Longmont. It would help if the traffic was spread out more among the local airports instead of concentrated at one.

I'm very worried about the future of our small airports. The growing tolerance for the irrational whiners is disturbing. The above story about the jerk in Caldwell says it all. This may sound extreme, but when someone intentionally harasses people by abusing the legal system, he should face criminal charges.

As the old saying goes, " the problem with this world is that fools are so certain and wise men are so unsure." Those anti airport folks have apparently already forgotten that the Boulder airport was the primary staging area for FEMA and NG rescue operations during last years dramatic flooding. I recognize a need to be reasonable in operations so as not to irritate critics but there can be little cooperation with those who work for your demise. At some level, generosity is interpreted as foolishness. Keep up the defense of GA!

I'm probably going to have a few more enemies after this one........

I just spent the weekend at my parents house at a really nice quiet retirement community in Murrieta, CA. I couldn't help but to hear the Twin Otter (or what turbine plane) that flys jumpers up from either Perris or Lake Elsenore, or both for all I know. This constant noise went on the whole weekend and can be heard from inside the house. I didn't ment this to my parents, but couldn't stop thinking that maybe there's a way the operators can use a refused power to the jump level they want to achieve? Sure, the faster they (jumpers) get up and out. The faster the plane can get back to the ground and start the cycle all over again in turn making money. Just my worthless 2 cents anyway.

Maybe I'm the only one to notice since I live and work in fairly remote areas and don't deal with all the city traffic, helicopter and airplane noise anymore. I dunno.

The Otters are some of the quieter airplanes out at LMO compared to a few notable 185s, helicopters, and handful of charter jets. Most residents (and past residents) will note the train horns that run directly through town the most disturbing noise that literally never stop day or night.

Disclaimer: I am hangared at the airport noted in this lawsuit. From the very beginning the plaintiffs actions look like a simple extortion attempt and I wish them only bad luck and heartache.

58Skylane wrote:I'm probably going to have a few more enemies after this one........

I just spent the weekend at my parents house at a really nice quiet retirement community in Murrieta, CA. I couldn't help but to hear the Twin Otter (or what turbine plane) that flys jumpers up from either Perris or Lake Elsenore, or both for all I know. This constant noise went on the whole weekend and can be heard from inside the house. I didn't ment this to my parents, but couldn't stop thinking that maybe there's a way the operators can use a refused power to the jump level they want to achieve? Sure, the faster they (jumpers) get up and out. The faster the plane can get back to the ground and start the cycle all over again in turn making money. Just my worthless 2 cents anyway.

Maybe I'm the only one to notice since I live and work in fairly remote areas and don't deal with all the city traffic, helicopter and airplane noise anymore. I dunno.

You're saying you don't like airplane noise????? Heresy!

Cary

Cary wrote:

58Skylane wrote:I'm probably going to have a few more enemies after this one........

I just spent the weekend at my parents house at a really nice quiet retirement community in Murrieta, CA. I couldn't help but to hear the Twin Otter (or what turbine plane) that flys jumpers up from either Perris or Lake Elsenore, or both for all I know. This constant noise went on the whole weekend and can be heard from inside the house. I didn't ment this to my parents, but couldn't stop thinking that maybe there's a way the operators can use a refused power to the jump level they want to achieve? Sure, the faster they (jumpers) get up and out. The faster the plane can get back to the ground and start the cycle all over again in turn making money. Just my worthless 2 cents anyway.

Maybe I'm the only one to notice since I live and work in fairly remote areas and don't deal with all the city traffic, helicopter and airplane noise anymore. I dunno.

You're saying you don't like airplane noise????? Heresy!

Cary

Actually I love airplane noise and I could very easily live on an Airpark. I'm sure most can agree there's a difference between planes coming and going versus a plane constantly buzzing overhead for hours upon hours.

Same goes for helicopters. I don't mind the noise of them neither. But get one or two hovering helicopters for more than 5 minutes, it's getting old really quick.

Just another 2 of my worthless cents.

Reduced power means they will be climbing longer - and will still probably be generating almost as much noise over a longer period of time

Looks like the skydiving operation near Murietta has been there for along time, at least 1984 - for 30 years. I'm sure the airport has been there far far longer. If you can hear airplanes from inside that house - either A) there is a real and egregious violation of noise rules by the FAA (not arbitrary/subjective standards of random people) B)the house perhaps was never insulated and would be therefore be susceptable to noise of cars/lawnmowers/harleys/trains going by.

The discussion here is very clearly that the jump planes only produce levels of noise above conversations and lawnmowers if you are right under the departure end of the runway - very close to the airport and for very short period of time. It does not affect large #s of people and all the people they do affect knew about the airports existence and operations when they bought the house.

Another thing to consider is that not every day/weekend is the same - winds and weather affect the propagation of sound waves.

I'm not arguing there is a problem - but if I bought a house near an airport with constant operations - and it bothered me, I would take some of the money I saved on the cheaper property and upgrade the insulation.

Hmmm....

Does anyone here fly twotters? In the single otter equipped with a -34 PT6 you can do a reduced rpm T/O at the same hp as a regular T/O. Additionally you can climb at essentially the same rate all the way down to 1800 rpm, very quiet. Only noise complaints we get anymore are from our recip airplanes