whee wrote:

akavidflyer wrote:I wear what I plan to crash in.. Good gear can't have a price tag put on it. I too have worn the insulated carharts etc, but if you get them wet your screwed. My avid is pretty tight in the foot well so I cant wear bunny boots but my go to boots for snowmachining and flying are the Cabelas snowyrivers. Low cost, waterproof and my feet never get col in them even when riding at -30.
Good gore-tex pants and coat. I wear an under armour base layer and then fleece pants / jacket under the goretex pants / coat. It is light weight and very flexible yet very warm. Motor fist or Klim gear are my go to. Staying dry in wet snow or rain sucks and they always keep me dry. I had one flight that I blew an exhaust gasket at -30 and had to fly with the door open to keep from going loopy and I stayed pretty warm.

Another thing about snowmachine gear is that most coats have zippered vent panels in them. If you have to get out of the plane and do any work (getting unstuck etc) you can open the vents so you stay dry and dont overheat.

I was thinking that my MF gear would be what I would wear if I was flying in the winter. Have you tried their boots? I have their Stomper 2 and my feet haven't been cold since I started wearing them, but it isn't nearly as cold here. The thing I've always wondered about is their built in, non-removable, insulation. They don't have a liner like all my previous winter boots, but they haven't gotten wet inside like my previous boots either.

Plus, I'll have seat warmers in the Bearhawk.

I have not tried their boots. I found the cabelas boots work for me so I have stuck with them. I will have to check them out next time I need to buy another pair.

I second AKAvid's advice to wear what you want to crash in. Without going into too much unpleasant detail, the predator crew that crashed here last week suffered serious complications from cold due to the amount of time it took to extricate them from the plane in below-zero temps. They were working with a ground crew that watched them go down.

Think about this for a minute. If these guys ended up with major frostbite (one survived, the other did not) in a scenario where people saw the wreck and responded, imagine what your chances are going to be if you're hanging upside down pinned in the wreckage in a remote location without witnesses, having not worn, or stripped off, all your warm clothes in reliance on the heater instead?

This wreck has forced me to reconsider how much remote and/or hard low level flying I do when the temp falls below zero, and has also caused me to reevaluate the need to have my PLB physically attached to my person when I'm flying instead of just somewhere in the plane. It would be an awful shame to survive the wreck, only to freeze to death in the wreckage because nobody knew you were there or because you stuffed your down coat back in the baggage.

I second AKAvid's advice to wear what you want to crash in.

That was our rule in the Arctic.

One saving grace was the poor heaters in most of our airplanes back then. If it was -40 outside, it was -39 inside our Sleds and Cubs. We did NOT get cold while flying, and we weren't cold while outside.

Gump

akavidflyer wrote:

whee wrote:

akavidflyer wrote:I wear what I plan to crash in.. Good gear can't have a price tag put on it. I too have worn the insulated carharts etc, but if you get them wet your screwed. My avid is pretty tight in the foot well so I cant wear bunny boots but my go to boots for snowmachining and flying are the Cabelas snowyrivers. Low cost, waterproof and my feet never get col in them even when riding at -30.
Good gore-tex pants and coat. I wear an under armour base layer and then fleece pants / jacket under the goretex pants / coat. It is light weight and very flexible yet very warm. Motor fist or Klim gear are my go to. Staying dry in wet snow or rain sucks and they always keep me dry. I had one flight that I blew an exhaust gasket at -30 and had to fly with the door open to keep from going loopy and I stayed pretty warm.

Another thing about snowmachine gear is that most coats have zippered vent panels in them. If you have to get out of the plane and do any work (getting unstuck etc) you can open the vents so you stay dry and dont overheat.

I was thinking that my MF gear would be what I would wear if I was flying in the winter. Have you tried their boots? I have their Stomper 2 and my feet haven't been cold since I started wearing them, but it isn't nearly as cold here. The thing I've always wondered about is their built in, non-removable, insulation. They don't have a liner like all my previous winter boots, but they haven't gotten wet inside like my previous boots either.

Plus, I'll have seat warmers in the Bearhawk.

I have not tried their boots. I found the cabelas boots work for me so I have stuck with them. I will have to check them out next time I need to buy another pair.

I can't say I would recommend their boots but I've liked them. I was asking because it seems like most Alaskans prefer boots with removable liners which the Stompers do not have.

RanchPilot has brought up another good point. If I wore what I wear snowmobiling and got trapped so I couldn't move I'd freeze to death. When I'm riding I have the vent panels unzipped because I get too hot. But then again RanchPilot does live in WY...

Most of my flying is done within a hundred miles north or south of the arctic circle. With every year that goes by I find myself flying fewer and fewer hours in cold weather. And I don't mean just chilly cold, I mean dangerously cold!

It's not because I get cold: I know how to dress. My survival skills are not bad. I always travel well-equipped and with good communications. And uh ....yes, I have a bit more blubber on me for added warmth as well!

I think I fly less in the cold nowadays because I've learned to recognize that winter flying in small airplanes, on skis, to remote locations, alone and with little or no support, at -30 is/can be downright life-threatening. It's important to recognize that risk, and if you choose to take it, then by all means try to mitigate that risk as much as humanly possible.

First of all, be honest with yourself about your skill level and experience, and set appropriate personal limits. Even though my experience and skill levels have gone up over the years, my personal limits have become much more conservative and I don't take nearly the chances I once did. Part of that is our inevitable decline in physical ability and stamina as the years progress. Part of it might just be the wisdom that comes with age.

As MTV says, "Be careful out there, this is supposed to be fun".

Very well said NunavutPA-12.

UpNorth

The picture in UpNorth's avatar is a great reminder that cold and dark go hand in hand in the north.

I haven't tried any of my new LED headlamps in real cold, but I remember as a kid that a flashlight had a brutally short life in -40. I wonder if anyone makes a headlamp where the bulb can be on the outside of your clothes but the battery pack can be on the inside where it is warm.

albravo wrote:The picture in UpNorth's avatar is a great reminder that cold and dark go hand in hand in the north.

I haven't tried any of my new LED headlamps in real cold, but I remember as a kid that a flashlight had a brutally short life in -40. I wonder if anyone makes a headlamp where the bulb can be on the outside of your clothes but the battery pack can be on the inside where it is warm.

I've got a really bright headlamp that has a 4xAA battery pack on the back of the strap. I'd wear it under my hat so the batteries were warm but the lamp stuck out the front. I can't remember what brand, it's buried in my garage somewhere right now. I got it at Arctic Fire and Safety.

NunavutPA-12 wrote:Most of my flying is done within a hundred miles north or south of the arctic circle. With every year that goes by I find myself flying fewer and fewer hours in cold weather. And I don't mean just chilly cold, I mean dangerously cold!

Do I recognize Kugluktuk from Ice Pilots? Do the Buffalo boys do some work in your area?

albravo wrote:The picture in UpNorth's avatar is a great reminder that cold and dark go hand in hand in the north.

I haven't tried any of my new LED headlamps in real cold, but I remember as a kid that a flashlight had a brutally short life in -40. I wonder if anyone makes a headlamp where the bulb can be on the outside of your clothes but the battery pack can be on the inside where it is warm.

Many options out there, starting with the Petzl Arctic over 20 years ago. Here's a basic Black Diamond model that appears to be on a sweet sale. If you want to get really serious, check out the mushing supply houses, such as Cold Spot Feeds.

rw2 wrote:

NunavutPA-12 wrote:Most of my flying is done within a hundred miles north or south of the arctic circle. With every year that goes by I find myself flying fewer and fewer hours in cold weather. And I don't mean just chilly cold, I mean dangerously cold!

Do I recognize Kugluktuk from Ice Pilots? Do the Buffalo boys do some work in your area?

Yes, they come in about once a month. Freight charters only, usually with the Electra but sometimes the C-46 or the DC-3 if the load is light.

NunavutPA-12 wrote:Yes, they come in about once a month. Freight charters only, usually with the Electra but sometimes the C-46 or the DC-3 if the load is light.

Cool. I don't have any great love for the Electras, but I'm doing a rewatch of the series while I'm in the US and enjoying seeing the C-46 and DC-3's flying again.

As a bit of trivia (off-topic I know - sorry!):

All of Buffalo's "DC-3s" are, in fact, C-47s. The obvious difference is the cargo door (though some true DC-3s had that mod installed after manufacture). Also, a DC-3 will have a pointed fairing on the tail, whereas a C-47 will have a chevron-shaped cover in place of the fairing. Behind that cover was the glider tow-hook.