I've always been curious and excited about the prospect for electric-powered aircraft, for a few reasons: 1) Electricity can be made by any of several means, from plugging into the power grid, to burning gas, to using a couple donkeys pushing a wheel around to power a generator. Of course at this point nothing comes close to the energy density of gasoline, so I think those'll be with us for some time, but this is cool nonetheless. If you can step away for a moment from the traditional energy-based arguments, the electric propulsion on its own is a really neat thing.

I was standing around at Twin Oaks yesterday after going for a short flight, and this ultralight came in on a very tight and low upwind, then crossed over mid-field. I thought he was having engine problems. He was flying at an oddly high AOA, almost like slow flight. He crossed right over our heads, and I swear to you, it was the quietest powered aircraft I have ever heard in my life, and I've watched Courierguy flying his Swiss muffler-equipped S7. I shot a video of it flying over but I'm not going to upload it because for some reason it sounds loud, which it absolutely was not. It was just a whisper! I was blown away.

I've always held that props make the majority of audible aircraft noise, not the engine, but now I'm not so sure.

I went down and talked with the guy, who informed me that it's called the Earthstar eGull, based on a newer version of the old time-tested Thundergull ultralight design. It's Part 103 compliant, uses a Zero Motorcycles 45 HP-equivalent electric motor, and a Kiev prop.

Here's an article I found on it: http://sustainableskies.org/the-third-e ... in-oregon/

Anyway, quite exciting. I told the guy "I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum, my friend-- I'm building a 260 HP IO-540."

Awesome!

I too am excited about the future potential for electric propulsion. Maybe I'm overly optimistic but it seems like the tech of batteries must be getting close to a big breakthrough, many smart people are working on them.

If the ancient energy of the sun can be contained in liters of kerosene why not the same energy in liters of batteries?

This is cool. On a kind-of related note, I just took a 600 mile trip in a Tesla Model S. Internal-combustion passenger cars suddenly seem so archaic.

-DP

That's got to be quiet to be quieter than Courierguy's S7.

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This short video from Belite aircraft show an interesting new electric aircraft they are working on.


Also FWIW, the Merlin single place all metal " Mini Cessna 150" from Aeromarine LSA is also scheduled to get an electric engine as well.

Link: http://aeromarine-lsa.com/merlin-psa/

I think the advancements in this electric stuff is great. The only thing I fear is it will turn out like the diesel pickup deal. Once they get a majority on board up goes the fuel cost. Right now a gallon of electrical energy is cheap. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future. My bet is a gallon of energy will cost the same no matter how its packaged. Heck I can see the day that I will have to unplug the wifes hair drier and dishwasher for a month so I can go flying for a day.

That SkyDock looks like something you'd pop quarters into to go for a "flight" outside of the grocery store. That said, I've been giving some thought to what I'd like to fly once I'm done with sleeping on the ground. When that time comes, keeping my Maule won't make a whole lot of sense. I bought it to haul kids to college and to go airplane camping. The kids are both done with college and my airplane camping days will probably end well before I quit flying. I've been thinking about motorgliders as a possible next step. If I'm just going flying to the airport to get into the sky for an hour or 2, having long range or great hauling capability won't really matter. Electric power is ideal for something like this. Use the engine to get aloft and find your cloud street, then shut it down and soar for a while. When done, glide, or power back to your starting point and land. The energy storage requirements for flying a 2 seat motorglider are far less demanding than for a 4 seat X/C or backcountry airplane. Existing technology suffices and there are several options already available to fit this market. Pipistrel makes a couple of them, the best performing sailplane of the bunch is the Taurus:

http://www.pipistrel.si/plane/taurus-electro/overview

Phoenix makes a great motorglider that comes with a Rotax in its normal configuration, but they have an electric version that is steadily improving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQtiCMb-2Hc

and there is a new electric mortorglider is development down in Oregon. The prototype is well underway and the designr/builder is a well know sailplane builder. The Goshawk seems to be an interesting option.

http://windward-performance.com/gosHawk.html

This isn't something I'm going to pull the trigger on for several years, but it is good to have replacement dreams ion place before the current dreams begin to fade.

Besides getting heavily into electric bikes this year, ( I need to update my thread on that, I've had some real adventures, and have only been hurt bad once) a week ago I bought a 2013 Plug In Prius. 33K miles, with all the bell and whistles, driving it , or hell, just "starting" it (turning it on is more descriptive, most of the time the ICE doesn't come on for the first several miles) is like something out of a science fiction movie. Going back to a conventional car would be like ditching the smart phone, for a rotary dial hard line phone. It's also one of the most, I think maybe the Tesla beats it out by a hair, or maybe it's the other way around, lowest drag vehicles in production, and less drag is always a good thing.

It was a somewhat spur of the moment purchase, but once I determined it's average range in pure EV mode would more then cover my average work commute to my crane yard in town, and almost all the way home (the difference is the 1200' vert between my place and town) I pulled the trigger. I charge it at the crane yard while out craning, and at home, off my grid tied solar systems, and a few times at constructions sites where it was convenient. It needs about 3 KW, that's less then a quarter if I was paying for the juice, and I'm not. When the juice runs out, I'm driving a regular Prius, and on a road trip to Jackson Hole last weekend, I got 61 MPG, so still pretty efficient. But, like most, my work commute is the most driving I do, that and driving around town. My entire attitude about hitting a red light has changed, as the engine, if its even on, shuts off and restarts seamlessly, plus I just made a bit of juice with the regenerative brake system. My first half tank around town, I got 78 MPG. Plus, it's a pretty plush ride, with all the mod cons, and plenty of room for hauling gear once you fold the rear seats down. I'm setting it up to haul, inside, (no extra drag) my ebike I carry in the plane, the fatbike on the ass end when local, plus there is plenty of room leftover for full camping gear, especially when you don't need a tent. Plenty of room inside for sleeping, with a HVAC system that can be operated 24 hrs a day at great efficiency, with the ICE engine only operating very briefly. Prius road trippers don't turn them off for days, and have heat and chill the entire time, while still posting better mileage then anything else. There is a whole forum for using the Prius as a heated/cooled camper, that also gets great MPG. Who knew, not me, but now I have some road trips planned, when the flying WX is crappy. And if you think they are pokey, think again, hit the "performance" button, and floor it, and it gets right on out real smartly, when needed. I've had some fun with that already, leaving someone in the dust behind me that thought I was going to slow them down, ha ha I have an onboard inverter, so I can recharge the electric bike while driving or parked. So for me and my driving situation, this was an ideal choice that is paying me dividends everyday, and it's made the drive to work fun again.


I should already have an electric airplane, or at least a eglider of some sort. Living right below a great soaring ridge, and having an excess of free electricity, but gas is still too cheap, but I am following what's going on in the field, very cool. It's good to know there is a alternative way to get up there. What I would like to see is a hybrid airplane powerplant: on take off both the ICE (which could be smaller as it would be e assisted on takeoff, no need to haul around for the entire flight an engine designed around the takeoff) and the e motor kick in, and in descents the battery gets charged, pretty much exactly like the Prius is set up. We all know how the little Honda generators are famous for being fuel miserly? Well, when a Prius is used as a stand by generator (an inverter making 120 VAC from the 208 VDC main battery bank, while the ICE only starts as needed, and at an optimum RPM) it delivers power at a much greater efficiency then the Honda, several times better, some guy did a study on it. I guess what I want and need is wings for the Prius, they have the power train all figured out already!

Well, when a Prius is used as a stand by generator (an inverter making 120 VAC from the 208 VDC main battery bank, while the ICE only starts as needed, and at an optimum RPM) it delivers power at a much greater efficiency then the Honda,

Love your post!!!!! So I could use this to run the fan on my natural gas furnace in the house. I used to use my shelled corn furnace but had a feeling when I installed it that I'd cause the price of corn to rise---mission accomplished.

175 magnum wrote:I think the advancements in this electric stuff is great. The only thing I fear is it will turn out like the diesel pickup deal. Once they get a majority on board up goes the fuel cost. Right now a gallon of electrical energy is cheap. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future. My bet is a gallon of energy will cost the same no matter how its packaged. Heck I can see the day that I will have to unplug the wifes hair drier and dishwasher for a month so I can go flying for a day.

The positive here is that both forms of energy aren't really competing for the same market. Absolutely correct that diesel prices went out of site during that period, but there were a lot of competitors for those BTU's. The base stock for diesel is of course crude oil...and crude has been over $100/bbl much of the last decade. All global shipping (trucks, trains, ships, airplanes), agriculture, and construction compete for a gallon of diesel (heating oil, kerosene, DFM, etc). From a $/btu stand point, it's about $17-$18/million (depending on area). About 70% of our total oil consumption goes to transportation...the rest is plastics, petro chemical, etc. Very little electricity relatively is produced by burning diesel.

Electricity is produced globally by Hydro, Coal, Nuclear, Natural Gas, wind, solar....not really in competition or dependent on oil. In a world where we are more and more using natural gas as the fuel for added electrical capacity; your $/BTU is much lower. Around $3/mmbtu. Not only is the price lower per BTU....the outlook for natural gas supply in North America is in the Trillions of Cubic feet.

In my opinion, the outlook for Electrically powered transportation is looking nothing but up. 5 years ago, I was saying that we'd all be driving diesel or CNG hybrids by 2030 due to technical challenges with battery technology. I think I was wrong...the success with packaging and deploying batteries has come a long way and we may cruise right by the "hybrid transition." Exciting times

Bill

The article that was referenced in the original post mentions the Antares e-glider owned by Dick VanGrunsven in Oregon. I saw the Antares flying at Oshkosh 2011, flown by the importer (Dave Nadler, an old soaring friend of mine). The performance of this aircraft was nothing short of amazing, both as an electric powerplane and as a pure sailplane.

The Thunder Gull derivative in this article, and the electric Lazair built by Dale Kramer, are now showing the potential for electric power in aircraft that are not swoopy composite laminar flow gliders. This is more important than many people think. It shows that "normal" airplanes used for hamburger runs can see a useful benefit and reasonable performance from electrics.

I am afraid, however, that the back country Super Cub type of aircraft, and a typical Alaska Super Cub flight profile or mission, will be the very last situation where electric power will be able to equal or replace gasoline.

And that's another reason I have yet to venture into an e airplane EZ. I got bored long ago ridge soaring behind my place, I like getting out there a ways.


180 Marty: the way it works is the Prius has a relatively small 12 v accessory battery (NOT used for cranking the engine, ever) and you can draw up to 80 amps or so off of it using a conventional 12 VDC to 120VAC off the shelf inverter. When the car's system detects a load on that little battery, the big 208 volt battery via a voltage converter, keeps the smaller battery topped off. If the load continues long enough, as the main traction battery voltage lowers, the ICE auto starts, comes up to it's optimum RPM (not an idle) and after a few minutes shuts down again.

For loads bigger then 1 KW, a different inverter is used, that inverts the 208 volt main battery to 240 VAC, with the same auto start feature. Word is, on a very few gallons of gas, the Prius can put out AC power for DAYS, totally unattended and with minimal noise, and at higher efficiency then any other small generator. Plus, it's a pretty good car also! A furnace fan is only a few hundred watts, probably less then 500, so a small mod sine wave inverter working off the acc. battery would suffice. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/30/thes ... generator/

175 magnum wrote:I think the advancements in this electric stuff is great. The only thing I fear is it will turn out like the diesel pickup deal. Once they get a majority on board up goes the fuel cost. Right now a gallon of electrical energy is cheap. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future. My bet is a gallon of energy will cost the same no matter how its packaged. Heck I can see the day that I will have to unplug the wifes hair drier and dishwasher for a month so I can go flying for a day.

But at least you can make your own with solar, wind, turbine power