My saga with an unscrupulous Part 135 CRS continues.

Throughout my annual, my requests have gone ignored and minor, unauthorized work was continuously performed. However, it came to a head recently in a potentially more consequential manner.

I had 2 new Superior cylinders on my O-470R installed, in conjunction with some avionics work. As such, I reminded the avionics guy and the shop owner multiple times to please not run up the engine to test the avionics. The plan was to get straight into the air and break in the engine, prior to ground tests with the engine running. Mind you, the avionics did not need the engine running to be tested - a pitot static test set would've done more than any ground run would.

Well, I received a video from them of my engine running, the CHTs registering on my JPI, and the oil temperature well into normal "green" range.

At the time of the video, based on the tach I could conclude they had ran the engine ~10-15 minutes at that point. There would've been some taxi time back to the hangar following the video.

I was quite honestly shocked that any repair station would ground run an engine, without breaking it in ASAP. Every break-in procedure I've read is very clear and unambiguous about keeping ground time to a minimum.

So I'm trying to decide how to approach the shop this week about my concerns. At this point, trust has eroded to the point I couldn't fathom leaving my aircraft in their hands to hone the cylinders yet again if they happened to glaze over. It's bad enough that recently Superior production has been notorious for ring chatter.

Is there any recourse here? Or should I just fly it and keep a case of oil in my baggage area until next annual when I inevitably pull the cylinders?

Uhh wut?

For one generally dropping a plane off and “call me when it’s done” is 95% of the time going to result in SOME level of shenanigans, if you’re not there doing the work yourself, or along side, stuff is going to happen, prices go up, time to complete goes up, quality goes down to some degree

As for a brief ground run, not ideal in a perfect world but if a 10-15min ground run destroyed the cylinders they were defective to start.

Honestly the death of most big bore cylinders I have seen was from them not being managed well in the air

Many airports where people have work done you could have a 10-15min ground run to simply go from start to entering the runway, what would the alternative be, have the plane tugged to the hold short line?


I’d also add, if I was the shop I would not sign the plane off until I did a ground run and post ground run inspection, a smart wrench would probably combine the ground run with making sure the JPI stuff worked while he was at it.


I’m also confused with the 135 CRS
Your plane is on a 135 certificate?
Or are you saying the mechanics ALSO work on 135 ships?
Not sure what that has to do with much other than some drug testing and other little things for the employees


TLDR, I think you’re making mountains out of mole hills and if you want to be more active in your mx, have it done by you and a mechanic who does owner assist stuff. That’s what I do

Mechanic put 4 overhauled cylinders on, he ran it 15-20 min on ground, I had to pull them back off after trying to break them in for 50 hrs, running it hard. Compressions low and oil on belly ……4 glazed cylinders.

Twenty years ago our "topped" 81 T210 (TSIO520) WAS tugged to run up area as per mechanic instructions. Fired up and took off immediately; flew racetrack pattern to nearby airport for 45 mintues for break-in. Fast forward to three years ago when we sold T210 and she had nearly 1600 hrs on TOP and still running strong. YMMV

What type of oil are you running? Straight mineral oil?
Additives “no bueno” for break in.

Sounds like that ground run up you where going to do has all ready been done. So get in it and fly. It won't be the first plane to spend 15 min on the ground before flight with new jugs.
DENNY

NineThreeKilo wrote:Uhh wut?

For one generally dropping a plane off and “call me when it’s done” is 95% of the time going to result in SOME level of shenanigans, if you’re not there doing the work yourself, or along side, stuff is going to happen, prices go up, time to complete goes up, quality goes down to some degree

As for a brief ground run, not ideal in a perfect world but if a 10-15min ground run destroyed the cylinders they were defective to start.

Honestly the death of most big bore cylinders I have seen was from them not being managed well in the air

Many airports where people have work done you could have a 10-15min ground run to simply go from start to entering the runway, what would the alternative be, have the plane tugged to the hold short line?


I’d also add, if I was the shop I would not sign the plane off until I did a ground run and post ground run inspection, a smart wrench would probably combine the ground run with making sure the JPI stuff worked while he was at it.


I’m also confused with the 135 CRS
Your plane is on a 135 certificate?
Or are you saying the mechanics ALSO work on 135 ships?
Not sure what that has to do with much other than some drug testing and other little things for the employees


TLDR, I think you’re making mountains out of mole hills and if you want to be more active in your mx, have it done by you and a mechanic who does owner assist stuff. That’s what I do

This wasn’t the whole story, had I included that it’s even less likely anyone would read the novel! Ha. So I appreciate the responses.

Let me clarify, I’ve done owner assisted annuals for 8 years over 3 airplanes, and 5 years with this airplane. My IA is in his 80s and called it quits, so I was backed into a corner with the only shop that had availability.

I’ve had many issues with this shop beyond this as I alluded to, and I’ve had to visit them nearly weekly where I’ve found unauthorized work that had either been done or was about to begin. Unfortunately, both for the sake of time and money, my best option was to ride it out but be very proactive.

I also realize I mistakenly mentioned Part 135 instead of Part 145 CRS. Just to say, they weren’t a Joe IA working out of my own hangar.

From the small sample size here, sounds like my chances are slim for a successful break in. Luck could be on my side, but given the crap shoot that are Superior cylinders, most likely not.

So how I approach this situation with the shop is another question. Yes, a ground run is required but should it be in conjunction with the break in flight? If not, where’s the line drawn? The Superior break in procedure doesn’t specify a time. So, it seems the burden of the labor and cylinder overhaul will be on the owner.

Mountains out of mole hills? Maybe. But I don’t gamble $7,500 typically so it’s a big deal for me.

Thanks all! Hope I’m completely wrong.

What’s the unauthorized work? Cant mention it multiple times and not spill the beans.

eightfifty wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:Uhh wut?

For one generally dropping a plane off and “call me when it’s done” is 95% of the time going to result in SOME level of shenanigans, if you’re not there doing the work yourself, or along side, stuff is going to happen, prices go up, time to complete goes up, quality goes down to some degree

As for a brief ground run, not ideal in a perfect world but if a 10-15min ground run destroyed the cylinders they were defective to start.

Honestly the death of most big bore cylinders I have seen was from them not being managed well in the air

Many airports where people have work done you could have a 10-15min ground run to simply go from start to entering the runway, what would the alternative be, have the plane tugged to the hold short line?


I’d also add, if I was the shop I would not sign the plane off until I did a ground run and post ground run inspection, a smart wrench would probably combine the ground run with making sure the JPI stuff worked while he was at it.


I’m also confused with the 135 CRS
Your plane is on a 135 certificate?
Or are you saying the mechanics ALSO work on 135 ships?
Not sure what that has to do with much other than some drug testing and other little things for the employees


TLDR, I think you’re making mountains out of mole hills and if you want to be more active in your mx, have it done by you and a mechanic who does owner assist stuff. That’s what I do

This wasn’t the whole story, had I included that it’s even less likely anyone would read the novel! Ha. So I appreciate the responses.

Let me clarify, I’ve done owner assisted annuals for 8 years over 3 airplanes, and 5 years with this airplane. My IA is in his 80s and called it quits, so I was backed into a corner with the only shop that had availability.

I’ve had many issues with this shop beyond this as I alluded to, and I’ve had to visit them nearly weekly where I’ve found unauthorized work that had either been done or was about to begin. Unfortunately, both for the sake of time and money, my best option was to ride it out but be very proactive.

I also realize I mistakenly mentioned Part 135 instead of Part 145 CRS. Just to say, they weren’t a Joe IA working out of my own hangar.

From the small sample size here, sounds like my chances are slim for a successful break in. Luck could be on my side, but given the crap shoot that are Superior cylinders, most likely not.

So how I approach this situation with the shop is another question. Yes, a ground run is required but should it be in conjunction with the break in flight? If not, where’s the line drawn? The Superior break in procedure doesn’t specify a time. So, it seems the burden of the labor and cylinder overhaul will be on the owner.

Mountains out of mole hills? Maybe. But I don’t gamble $7,500 typically so it’s a big deal for me.

Thanks all! Hope I’m completely wrong.

I’d say go run it, MAKE SURE ITS THE RIGHT OIL, and I’d betcha a beer you’ll be ok

Yeah, maybe immediately go gun it, fly it hard,, low altitude high manifold pressure hopefully that dude didn’t do any damage. That’s the only realistic option at this point anyways, there’s no gambling now, tthey either break in or not.

Spill the beans? Ah, why not..

The biggest one was the fact before I had a chance to talk with them, my wheels were removed for all new rotors and pads, calipers rebuilt and painted, new hydraulic lines. $2,000 in parts and labor I didn’t have a say in, when it’s something easily done under A&P supervision. Then there was the marker beacon antenna installation, just assumed I wanted one? Not sure why, I only fly light IFR.

But yeah, sounds like I gun it and hope for the best!

Who even installs a marker beacon anymore and certainly not without get owner approval with everything that a GPS offers at a reasonable price !!

When mine got topped, I swear they ran it for a total of 30 minutes on the ground. In the 100 hours since, it’s about the tightest engine I’ve ever had.

Don’t worry about planning for a fight you’ll likely never have.

Just a hunch but when new avionics (not known here) are installed, there is likely a requirement to run up and verify no squeals, static or abnormal indications. This would be very normal. I agree, 15 min taxi/run up doesn't even allow for taxi at some airports and engines are still flying.

Lastly, the A&P shortage is very real and I do all I can do to make them comfortable so they want my business - over other customers anyway. I know a number of shops telling customers to find another shop.

48Stinson1083 wrote:
Lastly, the A&P shortage is very real and I do all I can do to make them comfortable so they want my business - over other customers anyway. I know a number of shops tell customers to find another shop.

Shortage or not, that's no excuse to do a bunch of work not approved by the owner. Especially when its ridiculous stuff like marker beacon installs...

Assuming they didn't put AD oil in, there's a reasonably good change to get a successful break in of your new cylinders. What elevation is your airport at? Manifold pressure makes a big difference when doing these things... That said, my home field is at about 7,000 MSL, when putting a new engine in we *usually* cannot make the % power that TCM/Lycoming recommend for the initial hour/flight/whatever. The engines still break in fine, albeit can take a little longer. For what it's worth, if it were my airplane, I'd fly it hard and see what happens. If oil consumption stabilizes at an acceptable rate within the first few hours you're good to go. Worst case you've got an oily belly and some honing to do, not the end of the world.

As for the marker beacon install? That's a pretty wild move, but whatever makes your meat loaf I guess. Wish you luck finding a new mechanic. Seems to be less and less willing to do owner assisted work. In my experience being the one signing off said work, I can tell you there are fewer and fewer owners that I am willing to do said work with these days. Not saying you are one of them, please do not take that as implying anything; just my experience which should mean zero to anyone but me.