It might be just false economics but it seems to me that the rapid evolution of digital avionics has possibly created a world of opportunity for those of us less enamored by the new order of magenta & cyan. There are some great cost effective, once loved gadgets on the gently used market that hold some appeal. The biggest draw back I see is on going product support, yesterdays gizmos seem to be very quickly abandoned by those that developed them.

Mapleflt wrote:It might be just false economics but it seems to me that the rapid evolution of digital avionics has possibly created a world of opportunity for those of us less enamored by the new order of magenta & cyan. There are some great cost effective, once loved gadgets on the gently used market that hold some appeal. The biggest draw back I see is on going product support, yesterdays gizmos seem to be very quickly abandoned by those that developed them.

Are you in the market for a Loran Charlie that is in great shape.

I'm laughing but I've actually used LORAN-C but I wasn't thinking that far back. oh man !!! Maybe I'll have to dig out the old Trimble Transpac

Mapleflt wrote:I'm laughing but I've actually used LORAN-C but I wasn't thinking that far back. oh man !!! Maybe I'll have to dig out the old Trimble Transpac

In some places Loran Alpha worked better. 50 years ago when the USS Pueblo was captured by North Korea, They saw that there was a Loran-A and Loran-C. They wanted to know about Loran-B. They were pissed cus a good answer was not provided by the crew of the Pueblo. Even a few beating handed out by interrogators over it.

This thread isn't going in the direction I expected at all !!!!!

Perhaps not, but some of us were nearby at the time......

MTV

There actually was a Loran-b program, as well as -d and -f for tactical applications. There was also an interesting eLORAN effort.

I couldn't care less about whether steam gauges or glass are in front of me as a bug smasher. The skills required for situational awareness and flight management are pretty crude and basic, and either version does the job about as well as the other. You are beholden to a vendor on the digital installs, and have options with TSO components. I've never been impressed with the obsolescence timelines for glass. Given where GA has been headed for a long time now and will likely continue, it is hard to make a buck making nice products that are supported for multiple decades. New products and refits are the only way to stay in business for a small, innovative company. With the TSO process, at least a consumer might have drop ins when the time comes to replace.

mtv wrote:Perhaps not, but some of us were nearby at the time......

MTV

Memories.

qmdv wrote:

mtv wrote:Perhaps not, but some of us were nearby at the time......

MTV

Memories.

Scary ones.

MTV

Sorry to all if I've touch on a painful memory for some that was never the intent of the discussion, maybe Zane can make this thread go way

Mapleflt wrote:Sorry to all if I've touch on a painful memory for some that was never the intent of the discussion, maybe Zane can make this thread go way

No. Sorry to hijack the thread. Just that both MTV and I served on submarines in the same era and have a few memories in common. I was a quartermaster (navigation department) and used Loran-A and Loran-C on a daily basis. I used to fly a Musketeer with a panel mounted loran-c. The one on the Queenfish in 1968 was was about 2 feet square and about 18 inches high. Probably weighed 200 pounds. Wish I had one for a coffee table. Navigational equipment is really nice these days.

No worries, you guys and gals deserve the upmost of respect from all

No worries, you guys and gals deserve the upmost of respect from all of us

Mapleflt wrote:It might be just false economics but it seems to me that the rapid evolution of digital avionics has possibly created a world of opportunity for those of us less enamored by the new order of magenta & cyan. There are some great cost effective, once loved gadgets on the gently used market that hold some appeal. The biggest draw back I see is on going product support, yesterdays gizmos seem to be very quickly abandoned by those that developed them.

While I agree with you that there is a lot of gently used stuff on the market, I'm not sure is really worth installing. When you look at the possibilities presented in that new 3" Aerovonics unit and the price point it is at it miles it very hard to compete against even with used stuff. Heck, an overhaul of a steam guage will run you 800+. I've also been looking at used transponders for my 206, but the ADS-B mandate in Canada is coming down the pipeline sooner the later. I think one of the few used components that worth installing is comms. There seems to be a lot of parts around and they seem well supported.
Maybe I missed your point. But you are correct on support being dropped for a lot of old avionics.

David

I think you have a good understanding of the point, no worries. I seriously considering a "blended" approach to an upgraded instrument panel. The AeroVonics product offers the nostalgic look I'd like to capture while managing the total costs by utilizing some of the other "gently" used options. The upcoming mandated ADS-B is an expense that may be hard to avoid and I'm kind of hope its doesn't filter down to the "low & slow" uncontrolled VFR airspace GA world.

Oh, LORAN. I too had to plot TD lines on charts when I was a midshipman on the USS Blue Ridge pretending to be a Navigator (the Quartermasters really where the ones who knew where we where). I also used the Trimble Transpac units for years. Yes it was amazing at the time, but the new stuff does work better. The dark downside:

It is expensive when this stuff goes dark, like $7,000 for Honeywell to fix an EHSI. Or like Windows Vista, the software in the G1000. Just to let the system allow me to upgrade to ADS-B, $621. It seems all this magic stuff craves software updates, nice they update it from time to time, but the prices... That and your prisoner to the manufacturer. OR, they no longer support your nice $8,000 box, like the CX-80 or early 430's and 530's.

Like I told the lads operating my Twin Otter. Yes we could update the nav system. However, for the price I can buy 3 pallet loads of Collins Pro-Line spare boxes. Should keep you in the air for a century. You are flying bush with it in PNG, so it is essentially decoration.

It's absurd to have to pay $800+ to overhaul a gyro when a 6th grader can do it for under $80 in parts in a few hours (as one did last winter for his dad's plane). It is the world many of us live in. But gyros and steam gauges are simple, repairable instruments. Recurring income is the only rational model for instruments given the state of GA, and you are completely beholden to the manufacturer for the future cost of ownership and life term. I don't think that model is desirable for everyone. The difference in following the magenta line vs a paper map is measured in spare minutes tops for long cross country flights. I prefer maintainable instruments and used comm gear.

[quote="A1Skinner".....]While I agree with you that there is a lot of gently used stuff on the market, I'm not sure is really worth installing.
.... [/quote]

Depends on what youre talking about. For example, some ADS/B solutions replace your old transponder. Others, like garmins GDL82, incorporate it. Thats probably the route ill go. And if so, ill probably be able to snap up a couple cheap, still-good legacy Narco AT150s as spares for my existing one.

hotrod180 wrote:[quote="A1Skinner".....]While I agree with you that there is a lot of gently used stuff on the market, I'm not sure is really worth installing.
.... [/quote]

Depends on what youre talking about. For example, some ADS/B solutions replace your old transponder. Others, like garmins GDL82, incorporate it. Thats probably the route ill go. And if so, ill probably be able to snap up a couple cheap, still-good legacy Narco AT150s as spares for my existing one.[/quote]

I’ve got some bad news for you: There is no such thing as a “good” legacy or otherwise anything made by Narco.

MTV

hotrod180 wrote:[quote="A1Skinner".....]While I agree with you that there is a lot of gently used stuff on the market, I'm not sure is really worth installing.
.... [/quote]

Depends on what youre talking about. For example, some ADS/B solutions replace your old transponder. Others, like garmins GDL82, incorporate it. Thats probably the route ill go. And if so, ill probably be able to snap up a couple cheap, still-good legacy Narco AT150s as spares for my existing one.[/quote]

For you guys in the US yes, but with our satellite based sytem in Canada I'm no use those systems will work. Time I'll tell.