Thanks for the reply. I'm flying a carbon cub ex with 29 bush wheels and baby bush wheel in back. Not really thrilled about the no abort landing thing. Looking for some solitude and great fishing, also somewhere that I can get to and back with 22 gallons of fuel plus a 5 gallon gas bag.

I have the first and second additions. With the exception of a few added/deleted strips, the info was the same. So, on the third edition, was any of the strip info updated? For example, if you go to Murphy Hot Springs hoping for a soak, you'll be sorely disappointed. It's been closed for a decade plus!


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Scolopax wrote:There is a lot of background information necessary to answer that question. Some strips are smooth long, wide and easy to go around on, while others would likely result in fatalities in the event of an aborted landing. Some have picnic tables, prepared sites, internet, freezers, showers and flush toilets, while others are totally primitive. Some are very close to the water and others you might need to make a strenuous hike to access good fishing. Moose Creek is pretty hard to beat for camping next to your plane and having pit toilets, moderate traffic and decent river access but one must hike down to the river. Cabin Creek is a great spot for camping with less traffic and no real amenities, but a longer hike to fishing than Moose Creek. It is not exactly a beginner strip either. Johnson Creek has decent fishing really close to the campsites and more amenities than any campground I've ever been to. It is a great place where you will always meet other aviators. If you want solitude, though, JC is the last choice. A popular arrangement is to base out of JC or MC and make day trips out to other destinations. The interesting question is: where is the best fishing?

Here is an old thread that speaks to your question: https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/ ... daho-10816

Great info top to bottom, thanks for posting. I'm somewhat of an Idaho rookie, only flown in once. With that one trip though I found my fly Idaho book useful. Kept it in the plane with me and have it open now planning my trip in June.

Not much of a fisherman, but I dabble. Similar to what Scolopax mentioned, JC as a base and then make trips out. Thomas creek is a cool spot....a little primitive on camping but you could make it work if you had to stay the night due to not getting out. Ranger station is close and he's a good dude. Had clean water and sleeping bags if you need them. When making day trips, one of the lessons I learned the first year is be prepared to stay a night if you need to. Plane, wind and weather problems can turn your "quick hike to the river" into a chilly, thirsty, long night.

fast eddie wrote:also somewhere that I can get to and back with 22 gallons of fuel plus a 5 gallon gas bag.

I've found that it is difficult to get much more than 60-70 miles away from a filling station in the Idaho backcountry.

as for fishing i"ve been to most of the strips in fly idaho since I base at JC and fly to fish a stream all day returning in the evening when winds are down... if you are a novice fly fisherman and want to start slow... fly to Sulphur creek for a great breakfast and stay the day fishing either the stream or if you are lazy the pond... the pond holds trout 12 to 20 inches and will hit flies especially may flies if there is a hatch... the stream is great for cutthroat trout in the 12 to 15 inch range and at the right time you will see salmon migrating up stream that are 3 feet plus... upper loon is also a great cut throat stream and is easy to land and take off from... just be aware of den alt when leaving... walk up the road from the strip about a mile walk into the stream and fish it back to the strip... I"ve caught 12 to 18 inch cuts in it... same is true for lower loon but it is a little less forgiving... upper loon is a piece of cake just practice slow flight and spot landings before you go to idaho....garden valley is a great place to camp and you can fish right below the strip but it isn't that great... I would walk downstream a ways and hit the deep pools...but again it is a fine camp base....weatherby is good fishing and some 18 to 20 inch cuts are in the deeper pools... but I wouldn't camp there due to the dust from the road...Moose creek is rather easy as far as landing and departing go and you can fish either the river or Moose creek for cuts.... check with the rangers on bear activity though... last time I was there there was a bear visiting campers...any strip on big creek is great fishing... easiest of these is big creek strip with cabin coming in a close second but there is no go around at cabin... watch for rattlers too....i've fished Cayuse, chamberlain, dixie, big bar, elk city, graham, Atlanta, Thomas creek, Johnson creek, landmark,shearer,smiley,warm springs,and a few i can't remember... almost never been skunked fly fishing in Idaho...camping is great at most of the strips but i relish my hot shower every evening with a campfire and a good 18 year old single malt around the evening fire...so that's my getaway every summer since 1996 and weather permitting this June also... if you]re there come by my campfire and say hello... I might even share a taste of that scotch....

fast eddie wrote:somewhere that I can get to and back with 22 gallons of fuel plus a 5 gallon gas bag.

I've been all through the Frank Church in my J3 with only a 12g tank and two 5g ABW bags. I won't say I was comfortable doing it cause I was skerred shitless - but you'll be just fine in a carbon cub. McCall is a short hop over from JC for resupply.

fast eddie wrote:...somewhere that I can get to and back with 22 gallons of fuel plus a 5 gallon gas bag.

I guess I'm missing some critical info here....why only 22 gallons?
I was gonna guess 22 gallons was max after loading the airplane to stay under gross, but then the 5 gallon gas bag part doesn't make sense.
Does the Carbon Cub only hold 22 gallons?

fast eddie wrote:Thanks for the reply. I'm flying a carbon cub ex with 29 bush wheels and baby bush wheel in back. Not really thrilled about the no abort landing thing. Looking for some solitude and great fishing, also somewhere that I can get to and back with 22 gallons of fuel plus a 5 gallon gas bag.

Your concern about no go arounds is well taken. That said, most of the strips in the Idaho backcountry can offer some difficulties. Even Johnson Creek can be unforgiving at times, though it's huge, and a very nice strip.

My point is, practice your landings in all sorts of conditions, such that you can hit your chosen touchdown point EVERY time....like 100%. That will give you the confidence that you really should have to go poke around that part of the world.

It would be a good idea as well to give Lori MacNichol a call and line up some flight instruction into some of those strips to kick off your exploration. That will do a lot to ease your concerns about one way strips, and prepare you better for the recreational purpose of your trip.

MTV

This topic has drifted away from Galen's book, but as long as we are talking about what newcomers to the Idaho backcountry can expect, I thought I would mention some of what I've learned about flying the region.

The most important piece of advice is to finish flying by around 9-10 am in the summer months. High density altitude is particularly insidious in the Idaho backcountry. Pay much attention to how heavy your craft is, and fly as light as you can.

Another thing is that it's not too difficult to turn up the wrong canyon and find yourself boxed in with zero options. Know where you are and where you are going at all times. Relying solely on GPS for navigation is something that you can get away with in flat lands, but it can really bite you out in the steep drainages where most of the strips are located.

Many have learned these lessons the hard way.

Carbon Cub only holds 24 gallons considering 22 usable. Weight is no problem

I'm sure Lori MacNichol is absolutely top notch but $300/hr is a bit steep and the way I read it that doesn't include the airplane. That's about 6X what instruction costs around my area costs and my instructor is a prior aerobatics competitor and no slouch. While mountain flying skills are specialized, I can't believe they are specialized to the point of channeling "The Force." I understand that you get what you pay for and that the costs of a bent airplane and the airlift removal costs will make $300/hr look cheap. Any other options for instruction that is priced for other than the rich and famous?

I'm not sure what is available now, but when I started out backcountry flying, I would call one of the FBO's in Salmon, or Challis and arrange to have one of their pilots show me the ropes. All those outfits have changed hands since as that was many years ago. It might be worth making some calls, though. I'd also check with Boise FBO's. I paid normal instructor prices at the time. Those pilots get really busy during the summer so early or late season is the best time to arrange something.I was also living in Montana at the time and took the state offered training as a mountain search pilot. That was an excellent course and I'm sure still is for those living in MT and owing their own plane.


One of my old ID instructors is now running this business and I would definitely recommend him but I don't know what he is charging:

http://stick-rudder.com/index.php


I'm with you on the Lori cost, there should be others around for more normal rates. If you don't turn anything up in Idaho. Check with Missoulla or Hamilton MT FBO's.

Likely other's on here will give names of people they know, but if not the above may be a good back up starting point.

fshaw wrote:I'm sure Lori MacNichol is absolutely top notch but $300/hr is a bit steep and the way I read it that doesn't include the airplane. That's about 6X what instruction costs around my area costs and my instructor is a prior aerobatics competitor and no slouch. While mountain flying skills are specialized, I can't believe they are specialized to the point of channeling "The Force." I understand that you get what you pay for and that the costs of a bent airplane and the airlift removal costs will make $300/hr look cheap. Any other options for instruction that is priced for other than the rich and famous?

As you said, you get what you pay for. A good instructor who specializes in this kind of flying (that includes one way strips, truly tight strips, as well as mountain flying) is worth their weight..... For years I instructed on floats at $50 an hour and was regularly told that I didn't charge enough....by folks I flew with. Other instructors were charging $20 or $25 an hour.

This is a high risk environment, if you want "the real deal". And as such, a well qualified instructor who will really show you how it's done is worth whatever they charge in my opinion. With someone who really knows the country and the task, it doesn't take long to convey the important stuff to a pilot who's already flying the airplane well.

But, that $25 an hour instructor may have never flown your aircraft type, he/she may never have actually landed any of the more challenging strips in that part of the world.

I don't know Lori, though I've met her. I have talked to a number of pilots who've flown with her, and I've attended a couple of her seminars......and as near as I can figure, she's the real deal.

Finally, consider that when I was actively instructing a lot in other people's airplanes, I carried flight instructor insurance.....which costs around $1200 a year. To make flight instructing break even, a good instructor needs to charge a reasonable price. I don't know if Lori carries instructor insurance, but most lower priced instructors don't.

Again, it doesn't take several hours to get pretty well up to speed, assuming your stick and rudder skills are up to speed in the first place. An hour of dual can make all the difference in the world when it comes to this kind of stuff, and you employ a qualified instructor.

Finally, consider that this is a seasonal business for someone like Lori, and a fairly short season at that, particularly in a heavy fire year like last year.

You do get what you pay for.

MTV

Agreed that what you get what you pay for.
How many hrs do you think are needed with Lori if a pilot has never been to Idaho?

motoadve wrote:Agreed that what you get what you pay for.
How many hrs do you think are needed with Lori if a pilot has never been to Idaho?

The overall course offered would be quite good:

http://www.mountaincanyonflying.com/

Your flying skills are quite good in terms of your control of the aircraft and stabilized approaches, etc. So in terms of actual flight time, even with 2 to 4 hours of instruction, as MTV stated, you'd be very well oriented. However, the course is much more involved than that and would be an excellent overall learning experience.

At least 3 hrs as individual training I think I will go for it.
What about Amy Hoover is she still giving instruction?

motoadve wrote:At least 3 hrs as individual training I think I will go for it.
What about Amy Hoover is she still giving instruction?

Amy used to work with/for Lori. I'm not sure what her current status is or if she is in Lori's instructor pool. Mountain flying Seminars might know and a call to them wouldn't hurt.

Also, the link I posted above to Stick-Rudder.com, would put you in contact with Paul Leadabrand who was one of my early mountain flying instructors back before there were any formalized courses available (outside of the State of Montana Division of Aeronautics). I learned a great deal from Paul and highly recommend him as well as the others mentioned. They are all in the same class, IMHO. Out of the five or so mountain flying instructors I had over the years, Paul stood out for also teaching me the most about how to fly the plane to stay alive in the canyons/mountains when in adverse conditions.

All of the instructors I've had were top notch, and I learned a lot from each; they all brought a unique aspect and taught me something I hadn't understood or gained from the others. I appreciated being able to fly with multiple instructors over time and all were exceptionally well qualified. So my point is, I would look for opportunities to fly with different instructors over time; I've benefited by flying with several.

I don't know Lori, but she has a good reputation. My experience (mostly sea level, flat land) was that I needed a tune up from a high DA standpoint, different deal than "flying in a canyon" deal. Both are important. I learned to fly in New Mexico, but it had been years though. I killed two birds with getting a flight review from a high time 185 guy that lives near the mountains (Sierras). He charged 75/hr. That got me current operating again at 8k plus DA. Then, when I went to Idaho I just had to focus on the canyon flying issues. Covered that with a combo of ground and good friends with experience. Also, start slow.

I'm sure you could find a guy in Afton on your way West. It's a good gas/overnight stop too. The reason why Lori can charge that price though is because she's a one stop shop. She's there, she's an authority, and she's a known commodity. With a lot of instrucors it's a crap shoot. I'd also call the fbo in afton and ask the manager who is giving the husky customers their checkouts. Probably a good place to spend a day.

Bill

if you can swing the cost you won't even miss that $300. Lori is a gem of a person with the heart of teacher. When you combine that with her experience, the instruction is unparalleled in my humble opinion. There are a lot of good mountain pilots out there, but none like Lori.

There are many expert backcountry pilots, but there are few who are also expert teachers. Lori is both.


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